Grey squirrels 'do not harm woodland birds in England' (1 Viewer)

[nickderry]

I'm usually here out of insomnia or boredom, or both - but it's all good!

 

[ChrisKten]

Serious? Not a bit.

It's a message board, for Pete's sake.

Hyde Park Corner for the world.

Good description, I wonder what we'd do if they took it away.|=)|

I'm going to spoil it now, and be a little serious, if I may.

Perhaps the problem with Grey Squirrels is they are not seen as a problem by many of us. I'm in my 50s, and I've never seen a Red Squirrel (I've not researched whether they were ever in London?), so I've no experience of a threat to the Reds. OTOH, if I lived in an area that has a diminishing number of Reds, and it's proved to be the fault of the Greys (sounds like Scifi Aliens with UFOs), I'm pretty sure that I would feel quite differently to how I do now.

So I do understand that they really can be hated (not really the right word, or is it?), it's just that I don't "get it", if you know what I mean. I also don't agree with killing, but that's another argument completely.

That's it, serious over

 

[Shi Jin]

Maybe no one will listen to the advice offered here (no matter how measured and sensible.... ;-).

But here's the view of someone on the subject whose views have a bit more weight:

Particularly when they are reported by The Sun.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I bring you the fight of the century:

If you were enthralled by the Rumble in the Jungle, then you'll be on the edge of your seats for the "Scud in the Wood"...

Yes, indeed! It's showtime! ... It's.......

"Charles vs Squirrels"

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...-calls-for-elimination-of-grey-squirrels.html

 

[ChrisKten]

Maybe no one will listen to the advice offered here (no matter how measured and sensible.... ;-).

But here's the view of someone on the subject whose views have a bit more weight:

Particularly when they are reported by The Sun.

Ladies and Gentlemen, I bring you the fight of the century:

If you were enthralled by the Rumble in the Jungle, then you'll be on the edge of your seats for the "Scud in the Wood"...

Yes, indeed! It's showtime! ... It's.......

"Charles vs Squirrels"

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...-calls-for-elimination-of-grey-squirrels.html

I have a feeling that Charles hates Squirrels because one dug up one of his plants to get nuts it buried, Dorothy her name was, the plant that is.|=)|

 

[Adam W]

Perhaps the problem with Grey Squirrels is they are not seen as a problem by many of us. I'm in my 50s, and I've never seen a Red Squirrel (I've not researched whether they were ever in London?), so I've no experience of a threat to the Reds. OTOH, if I lived in an area that has a diminishing number of Reds, and it's proved to be the fault of the Greys (sounds like Scifi Aliens with UFOs), I'm pretty sure that I would feel quite differently to how I do now.

That might be part of the problem, i'm only 27 yet remember regulary seeing Reds where now there are only Greys and still live quite close and often visit some of th few places where there are still Reds so this is bound to have a different effect on me to someone who has never seen a Red anyway.

 

[Shi Jin]

Yes indeed, one has to be extremely careful where one buries one's nuts.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Good description, I wonder what we'd do if they took it away.|=)|

I'm going to spoil it now, and be a little serious, if I may.

Perhaps the problem with Grey Squirrels is they are not seen as a problem by many of us. I'm in my 50s, and I've never seen a Red Squirrel (I've not researched whether they were ever in London?), so I've no experience of a threat to the Reds. OTOH, if I lived in an area that has a diminishing number of Reds, and it's proved to be the fault of the Greys (sounds like Scifi Aliens with UFOs), I'm pretty sure that I would feel quite differently to how I do now.

So I do understand that they really can be hated (not really the right word, or is it?), it's just that I don't "get it", if you know what I mean. I also don't agree with killing, but that's another argument completely.

That's it, serious over

I think it doesn't come close to being strong enough for it to be the right word.

We seem to be of an age.

I collected the Brooke Bond tea cards when I was at the junior school. The British Wildlife set (50 in the set) was my favourite. I still remember the photo they used of the house mouse cowering on the edge of what looked like a rug.

They had two squirrels illustrated; the red squirrel which was what we all understood as a "squirrel" in those days, described as "widespread"; and the grey squirrel, which it described as introduced from America, larger than the red squirrel and uncommon and found only in some southern counties of England.

I though that it was probably a creature that I would only ever encounter if I was very lucky.

Oh dear.

Until this past year I could guarantee going to woodland within 10 minutes walk of my house and see red squirrels.

In September I saw my first grey in the county, only three miles from my home. I now find posters proclaiming that squirrel pox is in the area and that greys should be reported. The picture on the poster shows a photo of a red squirrel with head injuries that look very like the effects of myxy on a rabbit.

I think "hate" is a rather mild term for what I feel towards grey squirrels.

 

[s. james]

Isn't this just a bit of fun? Occasionally you read something interesting, sometimes you even learn something, you can even make friends. But most of the time it's simply something to do, isn't it? Or did you think it was all "serious business" on the Internet?

Off topic a bit again here (sorry!) but I think there's definately a place for some 'serious' discussion. That doesn't mean it can't be interesting and enjoyable.

Don't know if any of you get British Birds (the magazine/journal thing). I don't but I do have the interactive DVD-Rom with every edition from 1907-2007. This is a great resource and my favourite bits are the 'Notes' submitted by ordinary birders.

Posts on here can be similar to the BB notes and I often read them and think that the observation should be documented in something like BB.

If all original observations posted here were thorough and loosely scientific it would make them more enjoyable imo. A forum could be seen as just a faster way of communicating than a magazine.

Only problem is that we can of course post any kind of nonsense!

Also room for a bit of fun and banter too like.

 

[Pete Mella]

I suppose that I should qualify that last post:

Isn't this just a bit of fun? Occasionally you read something interesting, sometimes you even learn something, you can even make friends. But most of the time it's simply something to do, isn't it? Or did you think it was all "serious business" on the Internet?

ChrisKten, I know you've been on enough of these "bunny hugging sentimentalist animal righters" vs "evil Nazi conservationist murderesr" threads to know how it goes when you start a thread on invasive species, especially the cute cuddly ones (people don't seem to get so worked up about the killing of New Zealand Flatworms...).

 

[ChrisKten]

I think it doesn't come close to being strong enough for it to be the right word.

We seem to be of an age.

I collected the Brooke Bond tea cards when I was at the junior school. The British Wildlife set (50 in the set) was my favourite. I still remember the photo they used of the house mouse cowering on the edge of what looked like a rug.

They had two squirrels illustrated; the red squirrel which was what we all understood as a "squirrel" in those days, described as "widespread"; and the grey squirrel, which it described as introduced from America, larger than the red squirrel and uncommon and found only in some southern counties of England.

I though that it was probably a creature that I would only ever encounter if I was very lucky.

Oh dear.

Until this past year I could guarantee going to woodland within 10 minutes walk of my house and see red squirrels.

In September I saw my first grey in the county, only three miles from my home. I now find posters proclaiming that squirrel pox is in the area and that greys should be reported. The picture on the poster shows a photo of a red squirrel with head injuries that look very like the effects of myxy on a rabbit.

I think "hate" is a rather mild term for what I feel towards grey squirrels.

Off topic; you saying about School just reminded me of something. Wasn't there a Red Squirrel that was the symbol of a Road Safety campaign? And wasn't there a Red Squirrel called "Tufty", that was in a cartoon or something? (I have problems remembering that far back, age I think|=)|)

Off topic a bit again here (sorry!) but I think there's definately a place for some 'serious' discussion. That doesn't mean it can't be interesting and enjoyable.

Don't know if any of you get British Birds (the magazine/journal thing). I don't but I do have the interactive DVD-Rom with every edition from 1907-2007. This is a great resource and my favourite bits are the 'Notes' submitted by ordinary birders.

Posts on here can be similar to the BB notes and I often read them and think that the observation should be documented in something like BB.

If all original observations posted here were thorough and loosely scientific it would make them more enjoyable imo. A forum could be seen as just a faster way of communicating than a magazine.

Only problem is that we can of course post any kind of nonsense!

Also room for a bit of fun and banter too like.

I agree, Stephen. I find some of the observations in some threads very interesting, and, like I said, sometimes I even learn something. But I don't generally take threads like this too seriously.

ChrisKten, I know you've been on enough of these "bunny hugging sentimentalist animal righters" vs "evil Nazi conservationist murderesr" threads to know how it goes when you start a thread on invasive species, especially the cute cuddly ones (people don't seem to get so worked up about the killing of New Zealand Flatworms...).

I don't hug Bunnies, Pete, I mean I would, but what if I squeezed too tight and hurt them.|=)|

And yes, I did know how this thread would go. But I also thought that it would be interesting to see what others thought of the linked article. I often read people in this forum posting how Grey Squirrels affect Birds, and the article seem to cast some doubt on that. And of course, it's always fun watching people argue.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Tufty was indeed a red squirrel, but I think the Tufty campaign was in the 60s.

 

[nickderry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BrivBSv20Y

Here you go, Tufty, the very good (mostly) squirrel.

 

[ChrisKten]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BrivBSv20Y

Here you go, Tufty, the very good (mostly) squirrel.

I'm not watching that, I might have nightmares.|=)|

 

[Apodemus]

Off topic; you saying about School just reminded me of something. Wasn't there a Red Squirrel that was the symbol of a Road Safety campaign? And wasn't there a Red Squirrel called "Tufty", that was in a cartoon or something? (I have problems remembering that far back, age I think|=)|)

One and the same. Surely you remember the Tufty club.

 

[ChrisKten]

Tufty was indeed a red squirrel, but I think the Tufty campaign was in the 60s.

I've got a horrible feeling that I might have been in the Tufty Club, if there was such a thing.

 

[ChrisKten]

One and the same. Surely you remember the Tufty club.

I posted at the same time as you, and unfortunately it looks like I do remember it.

 

[Barred Wobbler]

Wiki says the Tufty club started in 1961, but Tufty himself was dreamt up in 1953;


"Prior to the introduction of the Green Cross campaign, a series of puppet animation public information films featuring Tufty Fluffytail and narrated by Bernard Cribbins were in regular broadcast rotation across the UK. Tufty Fluffytail, a childlike Red Squirrel character, was created in 1953 by Elsie Mills MBE to introduce clear and simple safety messages to children. The success of the character led to the creation in 1961 of the Tufty Club for children under five years of age. Under its auspices more than 30,000 Tufty books about road safety were issued to parents. At its peak there were nearly 25,000 branches of the Tufty Club throughout the UK, and by the early 1970s an estimated two million children were members. The movement continued well into the 1980s and is well remembered today."

 

[ChrisKten]

Wiki says the Tufty club started in 1961, but Tufty himself was dreamt up in 1953;


"Prior to the introduction of the Green Cross campaign, a series of puppet animation public information films featuring Tufty Fluffytail and narrated by Bernard Cribbins were in regular broadcast rotation across the UK. Tufty Fluffytail, a childlike Red Squirrel character, was created in 1953 by Elsie Mills MBE to introduce clear and simple safety messages to children. The success of the character led to the creation in 1961 of the Tufty Club for children under five years of age. Under its auspices more than 30,000 Tufty books about road safety were issued to parents. At its peak there were nearly 25,000 branches of the Tufty Club throughout the UK, and by the early 1970s an estimated two million children were members. The movement continued well into the 1980s and is well remembered today."

Oh well, I couldn't have been in the Tufty Club then, I was 7 in 1961. Maybe it was some drug induced nightmare I had.

 

[captaincarot]

Good description, I wonder what we'd do if they took it away.|=)|

I'm going to spoil it now, and be a little serious, if I may.

Perhaps the problem with Grey Squirrels is they are not seen as a problem by many of us. I'm in my 50s, and I've never seen a Red Squirrel (I've not researched whether they were ever in London?), so I've no experience of a threat to the Reds. OTOH, if I lived in an area that has a diminishing number of Reds, and it's proved to be the fault of the Greys (sounds like Scifi Aliens with UFOs), I'm pretty sure that I would feel quite differently to how I do now.

So I do understand that they really can be hated (not really the right word, or is it?), it's just that I don't "get it", if you know what I mean. I also don't agree with killing, but that's another argument completely.

That's it, serious over

in reply to the 2 bits in bold
yes they were
and yes it has been proven irrefutably.

red squirrels were the only native squirrel species in britain untill the introduction of greys.
red squirrels lived in all of the places where grey squirrels now reside.
the reds are replaced by the greys because the greys carry a virus which kills the reds yet the greys are immune to it.

the only thing that stands between the red squirrel and extinction on mainland britain is what we do to stop the spread of grey squirrels carrying squirrel pox.
so unless you are happy to see yet another species be driven to extinction through mans actions then supporting the control of greys is the only way forward.

the same applies to the mink and our native water vole, the signal crayfish and white clawed crayfish.
both voles and our native crayfish are facing extinction due to the introduction of american species.

the greatest irony of the voles facing extinction is it is as a direct consequence of people like the one purporting to be professor acorn. animal rights activists released the mink into the wild.

and i don't hate grey squirrels, i like them they're ingenious little buggers that rarely fail to make me smile when i see one. but they don't belong here reds do.

 

[ChrisKten]

in reply to the 2 bits in bold
yes they were
and yes it has been proven irrefutably.

red squirrels were the only native squirrel species in britain untill the introduction of greys.
red squirrels lived in all of the places where grey squirrels now reside.
the reds are replaced by the greys because the greys carry a virus which kills the reds yet the greys are immune to it.

the only thing that stands between the red squirrel and extinction on mainland britain is what we do to stop the spread of grey squirrels carrying squirrel pox.
so unless you are happy to see yet another species be driven to extinction through mans actions then supporting the control of greys is the only way forward.

the same applies to the mink and our native water vole, the signal crayfish and white clawed crayfish.
both voles and our native crayfish are facing extinction due to the introduction of american species.

the greatest irony of the voles facing extinction is it is as a direct consequence of people like the one purporting to be professor acorn. animal rights activists released the mink into the wild.

We've moved on to the serious stuff now, The Tufty Club.|=)|