Grimley and Holt (1 Viewer)

[Patch67]

I have no prior experience of BWT so it's a steep but interesting learning curve for me. I'm struggling to see how the Grimley bird differs markedly from Photo 7 in the link below

http://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/...This=true&TB_iframe=true&height=488&width=875

 

[Ravenwing]

Blue-winged Teal

I am a novice compared to most of you guys but I have a very good friend, an ornithologist of some experience living near Chicago. I sent my photos to him plus a link to Vern's Flicker flight photo.
This is his reply:

"I can eliminate Cinnamon Teal by the facial pattern and the rather pale blue wing (with would be much duller in CITE). This leaves really only Blue-winged Teal, a female type bird or a young male bird based on the little orange left in the gape in the flight shot. I don't think this is a hybrid. Blue-winged teals have almost shoveler-like bills. But then, I haven't seen a hybrid of the two species, so I wouldn't know what they look like. This bird, to my eye, looks within the span for this species."

Interesting comments from someone who sees BWTs on a regular basis.
Hope this contribution helps in some way.

 

[rollingthunder]

I think Lee likes to stamp his own aspect on these things, picking a feature that nobody else has mentioned (or seen)? In a population numbering thousands or hundreds of thousands there is going to be individual variation.

My own experience is limited to one adult male seen over 30 years ago on the Ouse Washes - like a lot of birders i don't travel or tend to put the time in on Ducks which is a pity as they are potentially full of pitfalls for the unwary and can be a steep learning curve especially the dabblers which tend to spring straight from the water.....

Laurie:t:

 

[Phil Andrews]

Is it worth sticking a few photos on the ID Forum and see what the wider BF community make of it?

 

[Paul Rhodes]

Is it worth sticking a few photos on the ID Forum and see what the wider BF community make of it?

Brian

Talking at length about the bird with Nick Barlow last night I understood that you were intending to send the images to proven American birders possibly using Martin Garner's good offices, given your comments today have you now ruled this out due to your doubts ?

 

[Brian Stretch]

Is it worth sticking a few photos on the ID Forum and see what the wider BF community make of it?

Hi Phil,

You're welcome to post any of my pics or links to the relevant pages on the ID forum. Would be interested to see any comments.

Brian
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[Brian Stretch]

Brian

Talking at length about the bird with Nick Barlow last night I understood that you were intending to send the images to proven American birders possibly using Martin Garner's good offices, given your comments today have you now ruled this out due to your doubts ?

Hi Paul,

Happy to still do that if people think it's worth while but given the close views I obtained this morning I feel the amount of pale edging to the bill is beyond what would be expected on a pure bird. I've blown up one of the images from this morning. It's a bit pixellated but it gives an idea of the markings along the left side of the bill.

Brian
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[Brian Stretch]

I am a novice compared to most of you guys but I have a very good friend, an ornithologist of some experience living near Chicago. I sent my photos to him plus a link to Vern's Flicker flight photo.
This is his reply:

"I can eliminate Cinnamon Teal by the facial pattern and the rather pale blue wing (with would be much duller in CITE). This leaves really only Blue-winged Teal, a female type bird or a young male bird based on the little orange left in the gape in the flight shot. I don't think this is a hybrid. Blue-winged teals have almost shoveler-like bills. But then, I haven't seen a hybrid of the two species, so I wouldn't know what they look like. This bird, to my eye, looks within the span for this species."

Interesting comments from someone who sees BWTs on a regular basis.
Hope this contribution helps in some way.

Thanks very much for this. Interesting to hear some comments from across the pond :t:

Brian
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[Brian Stretch]

I have no prior experience of BWT so it's a steep but interesting learning curve for me. I'm struggling to see how the Grimley bird differs markedly from Photo 7 in the link below

http://www.allaboutbirds.org/guide/...This=true&TB_iframe=true&height=488&width=875

I can see where you are coming from but the pale edging on the bill of the Grimley bird appears more extensive than this. It's where the cut off is between acceptable and not acceptable amounts.

Brian
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[Brian Stretch]

I've put together some notes and a selection of pictures here.

If further info and pictures come to light, these will be added in due course.

Any constructive comments welcome.

Brian
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[Brian Stretch]

Just been tipped off on Lee's take on the B-w Teal.

http://uk400clubrarebirdalert.blogspot.co.uk/2014/08/yet-another-blue-winged-teal-hybrid.html

Brian
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[Phil Andrews]

Hi Brian - I have linked your photos onto a thread on the ID forum; few takers so far: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=3060032#post3060032

 

[Brian Stretch]

Cheers, Phil. It was worth a go anyway.

Andy Warr has obtained some much better pics this evening which I'll upload tomorrow. He still thinks it's a worthy candidate but I'm not convinced and after hours of scrutiny now feel the possibility that this bird is pure has been exhausted.

Brian
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[Phil Andrews]

Just a little reminder that the West Midlands Autumn All-Day Birdwatch is next Saturday (6th September); hope Grimley can join in as it did in the Spring :t:

 

[Brian Stretch]

Just a little reminder that the West Midlands Autumn All-Day Birdwatch is next Saturday (6th September); hope Grimley can join in as it did in the Spring :t:

I'm sure we can put together a team. But don't worry, we won't be counting any 'duff ducks' in our total :t:

Brian
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[Woodchat]

I'm sure we can put together a team. But don't worry, we won't be counting any 'duff ducks' in our total :t:

Brian
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Brian,

I wouldn't take any [email protected] from people who dismiss your find as a 'duff duck'. The truth is it is an interesting bird even if it isn't quite a thoroughbred.

We've all had instances in the field where we have had to make a judgement call - sometimes they turn out good, sometimes not so. The conditions / lighting etc are also worth considering and weren't exactly ideal when you had to make the call. :t:

 

[Brian Stretch]

Brian,

I wouldn't take any [email protected] from people who dismiss your find as a 'duff duck'. The truth is it is an interesting bird even if it isn't quite a thoroughbred.

We've all had instances in the field where we have had to make a judgement call - sometimes they turn out good, sometimes not so. The conditions / lighting etc are also worth considering and weren't exactly ideal when you had to make the call. :t:

Thanks Dave. It's not quite over yet as Andy and Terry Hinett have kindly carried out much research in to this duck conundrum. It turns out there is much greater variability in Blue-winged Teal bill size and colouring than some of the literature suggests. Due to my work load I've struggled to devote the time to really get to the bottom of just where the cross over is between a pure BWT and a hybrid. Andy has got a contact in the US who will hopefully be able to give a much more informed opinion on the subject.

Brian
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[Woodchat]

Thanks Dave. It's not quite over yet as Andy and Terry Hinett have kindly carried out much research in to this duck conundrum. It turns out there is much greater variability in Blue-winged Teal bill size and colouring than some of the literature suggests. Due to my work load I've struggled to devote the time to really get to the bottom of just where the cross over is between a pure BWT and a hybrid. Andy has got a contact in the US who will hopefully be able to give a much more informed opinion on the subject.

Brian
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Well I hope those who were so dismissive are prepared to eat their words if it does prove to be kosher in the end. The problem I see with these 'high and mighty' types is that their overbearance is likely to make ordinary birders more risk-averse and, therefore, more potentially good finds could end up in the bin.

 

[keithr]

Well I hope those who were so dismissive are prepared to eat their words if it does prove to be kosher in the end. The problem I see with these 'high and mighty' types is that their overbearance is likely to make ordinary birders more risk-averse and, therefore, more potentially good finds could end up in the bin.

Yes..............and then spots will not be recorded and/or photographed for fear of ridicule. No worries from me though mine are always crap.....

 

[Gertatron]

Brian,

I wouldn't take any [email protected] from people who dismiss your find as a 'duff duck'. The truth is it is an interesting bird even if it isn't quite a thoroughbred.

Well said Dave:t: