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Message: <blockquote data-quote="lou salomon" data-source="post: 1364016" data-attributes="member: 16268">bird in pic 6 has one how we'd like to have a caspian bill - long, thin and pointed.this is a link to a short one (but thin, female type): <a href="http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/19014_UU_5074_KM1k3nov-5.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/19014_UU_5074_KM1k3nov-5.jpg</a>pics 7-9 are the same (male) bird, just to see how different head shape can look in different poses. as addition a bird with a really pale iris (pic 10) just to scare you a bit more :-Onotice variation in leg colour also: from dull yellow, fleshy with yellowish tinge to grey/'colourless'.note also that bird 1 (pics 1-2) has very extensive white mirrors (not only the typical large p10 tip but also a huge p9 mirror with just a very thin subterminal mark separating it from the white tip) and on underside of p10 the white tongue is merged with the mirror.for another anomaly in primary pattern, a rudimentary p5 mark (usually strong on both webs as in michahellis) see latest posts in "gulls": <a href="http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=100197&page=34" target="_blank">http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=100197&page=34</a>i'd like to add some thoughts on the stubbers green gull: structure as well as plumage looks good for a male caspian. i consider only 2 points as relevant for a reasoning towards a hybrid: short primary projection (main point) and lack of p10 mirror, not even a hint of it. i disagree with smiths that only about 50 % show such. male ponticus i guess have them in 80-90% of cases! i suspect that hybridisation between cachinnans and argentatus is more frequent and extended than we think. it probably occures in a large area from poland, belarus to rusia. hybrids seem to be fertile and many of the western european winterers seem to come from this zone of "intergradation" like panov/monzikov have called it: <a href="http://www.gull-research.org/papers/25panov.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.gull-research.org/papers/25panov.pdf</a></blockquote>

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