Gull with yellow legs, Scotland (1 Viewer)

[Stonefaction]

Saw this slightly odd looking gull at Arbroath, Scotland on Sunday. It looked just slightly smaller than the Herring Gulls it was stood beside but wasn't nearly as dark as a nearby Lesser Black Backed Gull though it did have yellow legs. Any ideas as to what it is/definitely isn't?

First 4 photos show the bird in question. 5th pic shows a nearby 'normal looking' Lesser Black Backed Gull to compare mantle shade.

 

[rollingthunder]

It looks like an adult Lesser BB with its Winter-head plumage. It is slightly smaller than the adjacent Herring which they are. Yellow-legged are are more ‘brutish’ looking and usually sport a bill to match. Adult YLG often show a White head in the Winter not the streaky-Brown of others.

That is my collected thoughts fwiw:t:

Laurie -

 

[smiths]

Certainly no Lesser Black-backed Gull, since upperparts are too pale and too bluish.
It is either a hybrid (e.g. LBB x Herring Gull) or, perhaps, a West Iberian/Portuguese type of Yellow-legged Gull.

 

[rollingthunder]

In Dundee?

It is obviously a very overcast day - i.e what they call a normal one in Dundee.

If i was walking past i would dismiss it as an LBB on size, structure and plumage but we shall have to agree to disagree:t:

Laurie -

 

[Nutcracker]

Tried a bit of brightening on pic 2 in case it helps

 

[rollingthunder]

A pity you can’t brighten up a Dun dee

Laurie:t:

 

[Stonefaction]

Thanks, Smiths. I suspect a hybrid is more likely, but I did have a look at Azorean Yellow Legged Gull which is smaller than Herring Gull - wasn't sure about other YLG races though. I knew that Yellow Legged Gull is usually quite a big gull, but not all races are. "Omissus" Herring Gull has also been suggested as a bird to be considered - and the mantle shade is perhaps closer to Argentatus HG than to LBBG, though this bird was more obvious than the Argentatus HG that show up at a local pond in winter.

Nutcracker - Thanks. I deliberately left the exposure(s) unaltered, so that all photos were taken under the same conditions. It was very overcast and rather gloomy at the time.

Laurie - if it is a LBBG then it is a very pale individual -as can be seen compared to the LBBG that was nearby in the other pic. I did find 1 photo on Gull Research Organisation webpage of a LBBG that had a broadly similar shade in September - though photographed in strong sunlight in Portugal (feathers bleached by sun?). Despite Dundee being Scotland's sunniest city, I don't think we get strong enough sunshine in this area to bleach LBBG feathers to the same extent as they get in Portugal.

Pic 1 is perhaps a better photo than the originally posted ones, and the 2nd pic is the nearby Lesser Black Backed Gull showing the difference in mantle shade.

 

[rollingthunder]

Any flight photos?

Laurie:t:

 

[Andrew Whitehouse]

Any flight photos?

Laurie:t:

There's one in the first post, plus another with its wings up.

 

[rollingthunder]

Sorry - for some inexplicable reason i did not clock that:-O

Laurie -

 

[Stonefaction]

A few more flight/open wing shots.

 

[smiths]

The contrast between black outer primaries and pale underwing is far too strong for any Lesser Black-backed Gull, that is for sure.

 

[Dean Nicholson]

I agree the subject bird is not a LBB, not even a pale end graellsii.... It is rather michy but for small size which could be explained away by being a small female but with the relatively well streaked head i would be pushed down the hybrid route.... I've seen several presumed LBB x Herring's like this over the years - a bit like the attached one from Scarborough a couple of winters ago - also quite small compared to surrounding HG's. Out of focus pic included to show mantle tone compared with argenteus HG.

 

[Stonefaction]

Thanks, Dean. It looks like it is between a hybrid HG x LBBG and perhaps a Lusitanus(-type) YLG, which are apparently smaller and do have some head streaking (the bird's streaking does appear to be limited to a BHG hood shaped pattern though this could be only partial plumage). There is a small black mark on what I assume id P5 which I think tallies for YLG, but I don't know if it rules out a hybrid HG x LBBG. The primary moult is also making it difficult to envisage just what the wingtip pattern should look like. Given the location alone a hybrid is the likelier option, though recent winds have been from far to the southwest so.....

(One difference I notice between your bird and mine is the full white tip to P10 on yours).