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Gulls - Cabo Raso, Portugal 19.10 (1 Viewer)


Well-known tool
I wish I could really add to the debate!

These are super interesting threads. Has this bird got a bigger head? Has it got a bigger bill? It certainly looks aggressive - smaller eye? Maybe. The black on the bill isn't significant in its size - is it a detail or is it an age thing?

I have attached another couple of pictures. These were all taken in the same direction with same lighting and give a perspective of the other birds - colour size etc.


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Well-known tool
And the final shots. 2 from the first day and 2 from the second... I don't think the photos change much of the debate already had...

I am happy to send pictures to anyone who wants to play with the editing.


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The bird is still around and i has able to take a picture with the wingtip patterns , hope this will help to have additional comments.


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Well-known tool
So the wing pattern definitely points to Atlantis, looking at Deb's link, but the back is on the light side...

I'm not from Portugal or really into gulls, look at where I was coming from, but what is the significance of Atlantis in Lisbon?

lou salomon

the birdonist
actually it is p9 showing the mirror (p10 still shed). and p9 mirror is quite large if being an azorean gull. i don't think it is. actually i wanted to reply to this much earlier with the remark that even in nominate michahellis populations such hooded individuals occure (some examples over the past two decades). but this whole bird is weird. it has shortish legs and their yellow is quite dull. a still growing p9 and missing p10 at this time of year is really late for nominate michahellis while maybe acceptable for some lusitanius (and perhaps atlanticus?). but i see Peter Adriaens is around, the author of the upper cited article - and he might get further than these speculations. little black on p8 is not good at all for atlantis though.
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Well-known member
Hi all, I have been following this thread with interest.
It is good to see a nice flight shot of this bird.
I agree with Lou that 8 fully grown primaries are visible in this latest shot.
I am actually not too sure about the outermost primary; it could be p9 but the outer web looks very narrow so I am wondering if it is not an old, damaged p10 that got stuck up there.
It does not matter much though; as Lou indicates there is clearly a fairly extensive grey base on p8, which means that the primary pattern is not diagnostic. It could be Azorean (unless perhaps if that mirror really is on p9), but it could just as well fit a Portuguese bird.
Head pattern is not diagnostic either, as Lou has already said too. The latest Dutch Birding paper includes a photograph of a michahellis with similar head pattern, photographed on Mallorca. Galician Yellow-legged Gulls also appear to show such a head pattern occasionally.
Primary moult is approximately two weeks behind that of michahellis in the Azores, but along the Atlantic Iberian coast it is even later. In Portugal and Galicia it is not unusual to see adult Yellow-legged Gulls still completing their primary moult in late November or early December.
In conclusion, I don't think a local bird can be ruled out here.


Well-known tool
Not wishing to open up this thread again but just to thank all who commented regarding this bird. It's great that you all find the time to help!

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