• BirdForum is the net's largest birding community dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE!

    Register for an account to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

gulls (1 Viewer)


Well-known member
You're not asking much Lou!,

Do you want all 3?

Foreground bird looks like a sub-adult herring, backgound bird also looks like herring.

One in the middle is a very dark looking adult LBB type if it's not intermedius it's a Baltic fuscus.


Steve Waite

What you looking at?
I'd say the front bird was a 4th winter YLG, bill doesn't look adult to me and I think I can see a few brown marks along leading edge of wing

lou salomon

the birdonist
i think steve is spot on with the ylg :t:, perhaps even 5th cy, not adult. bill, traces of dark primary coverts and even primary pattern, black reaching to p4 would be very unusal for adult ylg.
but jan of course got the species first :king: - nice links jan as always, great wing studies, but none of these ad shows black on p4.
the one in the background most probably another (ad?)ylg, the most common lwhg in that region (and the only reg. breeder).
if jj hasn't overlooked something (he got a damn' good kittiwake for central romania at the same day&place.
what sex would you guess for the baltic (admittedly this is subdue to speculation)?
Last edited:


Well-known member
The two in post 7 is not that easy, they could both be YLG,s although the left has some Caspian traits - like the gently drooping bill with weak gonys and a head shape - altough bull-necked and big headed - of a Caspian if you like.
The right one - a younger bird (perhaps a 2 -3rd cy) has the hang (between it´s legs) of a Caspian but could also be a YLG.

The one in post 10 could look good for YLG - wide red orbital ring, iris colour (could be seen in both - but favour YLG), bill shape difficult to see properly, could fit a large male Caspian:


but the eye looks large. Check this YLG in the background and note the small lllokking eye:


Yes Lou - I did notice the mark on p4 in the first image but no problem with that since some adult YLG has a dark mark, either on the outer web or as a narrow on both webs and of course also non-adults.


Zac Hinchcliffe

Time spent wishing is time wasted!
Actually... i will change it to 2nd winter Yellow Legged. At First I thought the bird was noicably Leggy, but on Second Glance, I see the legs are the same length. Also, the Bill is rather Chuncky for Casp, and am I right in thinking that a Caspian Gulls Bill has Parallel sides?

lou salomon

the birdonist
to #7: left bird looks like a female type caspian to me. slim bill and small eye, bill duller than most ad YLG but a better pic would be needed to be absolutely sure. right hand bird is difficult, bill says YLG rather than caspian, prob. 3rd winter, but could be an advanced 2nd winter as well - leg colour indicates more a 3rd; immat. caspian doesn't have yellow legs (fleshy or 'colourless' greyish).

lou salomon

the birdonist
Well there´s a good Caspian underwing pattern, long grey tounges and a black rather halfmoon like band with two large white dots at the upper end.

S. Sweden 2006.12.04 (Aron Andersson)





one of the several pontic gulls roaming around the small 'port' of sfantu gheorghe, a fishermen's village at the very end of the southern branch of danube, 2 miles from the coast only. very nice pic of katrin zickendraht.
i wonder why all pics of cachinnans from central/western europe show such pigmentated irises while maybe 40% i see in the delta have lighter irises. like this which fooled even jan ;)

lou salomon

the birdonist
btw. for me the baltic gull looked like a male.

and these?


  • Kopie von cate specii.jpg
    Kopie von cate specii.jpg
    44.5 KB · Views: 555
  • Kopie von cine zboara.jpg
    Kopie von cine zboara.jpg
    63 KB · Views: 531
  • vladesti kopf.jpg
    vladesti kopf.jpg
    8.7 KB · Views: 494
Last edited:


Well-known member
According to 'GULLS' 55% of Ukrainian breeding cachinnans has a pale iris with 28% medium dark and only 17% dark iris. Conclusion - a larger % of pale-eyed birds towards E.


1. Adult Med. Gull in post 18, followed by a resting 1st winter Common Gull and a YLG/CG favouring YLG on shape, thick neck and large looking head.
2. Flying 1st winter Common Gull and below most probably 1st winter YLG.
3. Caspian/YLG favouring CG on red gonys spot not reaching upper mandible (which in some YLG it doesn´t). On the other hand there seems to be a blunter tipped bill but that´s difficult to judge in a view like this, some male CG with a huge bill can have a rather blunt-tipped bill - although not in the way usually seen in YLG with a very obvious curved tip.


lou salomon

the birdonist
i see you don't enter the same trap twice, jan, and of course your right in being cautious, but you're right with the last pic, actually i think you have seen this pic before, i'll post it tomorrow, it's on the other calc. a worried father caspian in a very small colony in romanian moldavia. sadly the chicks (pulli) apparently were scared by some fishermen and were photographed swimming on open water.
you're prob. right with the other too, got to look closer at that canus! B :)


Users who are viewing this thread