lou salomon
the birdonist
some deformed and ill birds plus an impressing front view.
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gulls (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter lou salomon
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JANJ
Well-known member
lou salomon
the birdonist
is this
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=184882
barabensis or cachinnans? (supposed the upper wings are light grey, not visible in this pic)
bill shape and solo mirror are pro barabensis, aren't they?
well, actually it can't be a caspian because of that really small p10 mirror. maybe even heuglini which in march can have brighter yellow legs as we are used to see in winter.
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=184882
barabensis or cachinnans? (supposed the upper wings are light grey, not visible in this pic)
bill shape and solo mirror are pro barabensis, aren't they?
well, actually it can't be a caspian because of that really small p10 mirror. maybe even heuglini which in march can have brighter yellow legs as we are used to see in winter.
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lou salomon
the birdonist
lou salomon
the birdonist
http://www.iesmeulmeester.nl/fotos.php?actie=foto&cat=1&subcat=1&subcatsub=319
very instructive, ies! it really looks like a mixture of the 2 species!
very instructive, ies! it really looks like a mixture of the 2 species!
Ies Meulmeester
Active member
Thanks Lou!!
Here are pictures of very probably his pure YLG parent which is colorringed as orange 00 and ringed as pull in France on 16 June 1984. This year we have not seen him yet in the kollonie, so we fear for his life:
http://www.iesmeulmeester.nl/fotos.php?actie=foto&cat=1&subcat=1&subcatsub=111
And very probably his hybrid brother(which is sure a young from the adult YLG at the link above):
http://www.iesmeulmeester.nl/fotos.php?actie=foto&cat=1&subcat=1&subcatsub=20
Ies
lou salomon
the birdonist
black sea lagoons (grindul perisor) 11.5.2008
just a cachinnans allright
but some interesting point (above it being a caspian and lacking the right foot, a clear cut..) is the strong window, extended on outer web of inner p.s
some more points are visible - the additional narrow subterminal bands in the classic pontic gull tail, pale outer primaries on underwing and, on 2nd view inner primaries look just right - paler parts are just paler now creating a stronger window efect. on outer web of p2-4 (p1 shed) the "needels/spikes" are still surrounded by dark colour.
it looks heavy billed and big eyed as well (2nd pic), possibly a 2cy male with a large amount of faded 1st gen. coverts.
pic by cosmin. o. manci on 11. may 08 in a lido type dune just south of the d.delta: http://wikimapia.org/7346796/ro/Grindul_Perisor
cheers :smoke:
just a cachinnans allright
but some interesting point (above it being a caspian and lacking the right foot, a clear cut..) is the strong window, extended on outer web of inner p.s
some more points are visible - the additional narrow subterminal bands in the classic pontic gull tail, pale outer primaries on underwing and, on 2nd view inner primaries look just right - paler parts are just paler now creating a stronger window efect. on outer web of p2-4 (p1 shed) the "needels/spikes" are still surrounded by dark colour.
it looks heavy billed and big eyed as well (2nd pic), possibly a 2cy male with a large amount of faded 1st gen. coverts.
pic by cosmin. o. manci on 11. may 08 in a lido type dune just south of the d.delta: http://wikimapia.org/7346796/ro/Grindul_Perisor
cheers :smoke:
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JANJ
Well-known member
Hi Lou.
Those 'windows' on the outer web of the inner primaries is quite obvius on some Caspians, perhaps more frequent in michahellis. Had a look at this character one year in Nice (august) and a majority of the many juveniles seen had ths window, short or long - variable. In Herring it´s a standard.
http://www.helsinki.fi/~rauste/juvmic/y_bulg/index2.html
JanJ
Those 'windows' on the outer web of the inner primaries is quite obvius on some Caspians, perhaps more frequent in michahellis. Had a look at this character one year in Nice (august) and a majority of the many juveniles seen had ths window, short or long - variable. In Herring it´s a standard.
http://www.helsinki.fi/~rauste/juvmic/y_bulg/index2.html
JanJ
lou salomon
the birdonist
aha, i thought there is a slight tendency for cachinnans having more extended window than michahellis? sure i know all those exceptional looking YLG, but there are just less pictures of caspians to compare i think.
JANJ
Well-known member
Perhaps a slight missunderstanding Lou (?)
I meant the small pale 'windows' on the outer web near the tip of the innermost primaries as seen here:
http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/1.../larcac_20030921_tamper_rauvi/C_IMG_27174.jpg
http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/11_Rantalinnut/11h_Lokit/larcac_20051011_nokia_kosha/IMG_3439.jpg
http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/11_Rantalinnut/11h_Lokit/larcac_20051126_tamper_foran/H6D1537.jpg
JanJ
lou salomon
the birdonist
no misunderstanding, jan, i meant the same.
lou salomon
the birdonist
sister species in difficult cloth
hi all,
well, again the micha/cachi situation, again provided by cristian from bucharest. this time in the faded may-variant.
i thought sth. like this (from left to right):
1st pic (2343):
a) 3cy michahellis
b) 2cy cachinnans ? colour ringed???
c) 3cy cachinnans
d) last 2 i don't dare to id.
2nd pic (2427):
e) 2cy michahellis?
f) 3cy michahellis
g) retarded 3cy cachinnans???
h) monster male 2cy cachinnans or 2cy michahellis? hard to tell
i) below a short legged michahellis (2cy)
j) between them another preening michahellis
k) & l) both right hand birds look tendentially like 2cy cachinnans (strongly bicoloured bill in the forelast bird).
of course you would like to see them in nice side views and with better resolution but would it help? surely my id-trials are absolutely tentative
any disagreement?
as a bonus an adult (obviously nonbreeding) caspian gull at the same place (surroundings of bucharest, 26.5.2008) with rather pale iris. see how solid the black wingtip looks in the 2nd pic (upperwing!)
cheers
hi all,
well, again the micha/cachi situation, again provided by cristian from bucharest. this time in the faded may-variant.
i thought sth. like this (from left to right):
1st pic (2343):
a) 3cy michahellis
b) 2cy cachinnans ? colour ringed???
c) 3cy cachinnans
d) last 2 i don't dare to id.
2nd pic (2427):
e) 2cy michahellis?
f) 3cy michahellis
g) retarded 3cy cachinnans???
h) monster male 2cy cachinnans or 2cy michahellis? hard to tell
i) below a short legged michahellis (2cy)
j) between them another preening michahellis
k) & l) both right hand birds look tendentially like 2cy cachinnans (strongly bicoloured bill in the forelast bird).
of course you would like to see them in nice side views and with better resolution but would it help? surely my id-trials are absolutely tentative
any disagreement?
as a bonus an adult (obviously nonbreeding) caspian gull at the same place (surroundings of bucharest, 26.5.2008) with rather pale iris. see how solid the black wingtip looks in the 2nd pic (upperwing!)
cheers
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
lou salomon
the birdonist
of course it is pale. 3cy michahellis usually has a pale iris at this age (not so in cachinnans) 
this bird has the typical structure of a ylg.
note moult stage - p5 and 6 missing, greater coverts almost completely lacking.
this bird has the typical structure of a ylg.note moult stage - p5 and 6 missing, greater coverts almost completely lacking.
lou salomon
the birdonist
http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=21894
just to enjoy one of the rarest gulls..
just to enjoy one of the rarest gulls..
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AStevenson
Well-known member
Here's one to test you - apologies for the pic quality these are crops of digital pics of old glossy prints(!) taken in variable but poor/difficult light conditions - from South Uist in March around 2000.
I did get some feedback at the time, suggesting what I thought it was, was a distinct possibility.
Cheers,
Andrew
I did get some feedback at the time, suggesting what I thought it was, was a distinct possibility.
Cheers,
Andrew
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lou salomon
the birdonist
hi andrew,
this looks like a 2cy GBBG to me.
this looks like a 2cy GBBG to me.
lou salomon
the birdonist
how "far" fetched...or in which direction east or west ?
AStevenson
Well-known member
Lou, Jan,
The paleness is real - the darker photos were taken in very dull light and make it look darker than it was in real life. I think Jan's suspicions could be correct
Cheers,
Andrew
The paleness is real - the darker photos were taken in very dull light and make it look darker than it was in real life. I think Jan's suspicions could be correct
Cheers,
Andrew
