gulls (1 Viewer)

[lou salomon]

more gotland pics

i'm afraid it's nothing really exciting, just some studies.

1-2. another juv HG, see long bill and strongly contrasting narrow tail band; 20.08.08 ekstakustens reserve, gotland

3-4. the dwarfy GBBG from #544 and 552 (nobody answered) which at the beginning got me into thinking it was about the size of a herring gull; 20.08.08 ekstakustens reserve, gotland

5 yet another juv HG with a YLG-like tail pattern, well with a bit stronger marks in the white part of it than the average michahellis; 26.08.08 westcoast gotland

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Do you remember this GBBG, Lou? Also size of a Caspian/YL.

 

[lou salomon]

caspians commented

Do you remember this GBBG, Lou? Also size of a Caspian/YL.

of course i do, cristian. it was the star of herastrau park last winter, wasn't it? in direct comparison with the right hand caspian in your 1st pic it looks slightly larger, at least heavier/bulkier; the juv from gotland seemed to be strongly underfed already and i don't give too much on her survival during the next months.

i'd like to come back with some comments on the caspians i posted in #554 and #555:

1st bird (looks like 4cy+), with a dark mark onlower mandible, so maybe a younger bird. 2 more detail crops:

1. head: iris pigmentation is typical/average caspian; bill is short, not at all snouty as in typical caspians but tip of bill is very pointed, gonys is weak. nostrils not slitlike but triangular. hard to sex this bird (i have experienced that large males have tringular nostrils, females slitlike but there are exceptions, see the weird bird from post 51: http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=113645&d=1195032773 bill colour in the basal half mostly dull whitish-yellow, similar to all adult caspians i saw in september in that region (many with a slightly greenish tingue).

2. hind part - primary moult visible, i think only p7 is missing and p6 is growing (the fresh one close to the old worn tertials). can someone experienced shed light on my not fully understood primary analysis of the right wing?

3. legs in this ind. don't look as long as one would expect in a typical cachinnans, but they are colourless/grey as usual at this time of the year.

 

[lou salomon]

the youngsters from sf. gheorghe

comning back to the younger generations:

1. looks like a slightly retarded 2cy to me (large white tertial tips with subterminal mark, gr.coverts and scapular pattern, largish pale bill tip). bill shape is strange though, it looks short and stout and is black except for a small bit on the inner lower mandible. so it might even be a thrown in michahellis!! on the other hand eye looks small and all dark and placed high in the head and it stands upright. i think it's the only pic of this bird i have.

2. is the one that jan mentioned in his answer (#558), i.e. the schoolbook covert pattern: plain (in this case due blur) with two-toned greater coverts and dark secondary bar creating the pale-dark stripes on upper wing. but it also seemes to have a dark smudge around eye (same bird as no 3-6?) and a tail band tapering towards the outer rectrices -both things more associated with michahellis but obviously possible in cachinnans.

3. and 4. flight shots of a 1cy cachi showing underwing pattern: pretty well marked lesser coverts but not as plain as in most michas and delicate arabesque marks on median and greater coverts.

5. same bird immediately after landing: stilt like legs, dark smudge around eye, slitlike nostrils.

 

[lou salomon]

6. - 7. same bird as 3.-5.:

-see tertial pattern (6.) and a few moulted scapulars (7. and 8.) (and median coverts?), rest of plumage mostly (worn) juvenile. most caspians at this age are more advanced with some having most scapulars moulted into 1st winter types (2nd gen.); also shape - hanging "bum" (7.)

8. another bird: strong bill suggests male (and he seemed to be dominant over the other one). see pattern of axilliaries and pale outer primaries with rel. narrow dark tips only.

 

[JANJ]

Hi Lou.

Regarding the primary pattern of pic. 2 in # 263 it is a bitt difficult to get a proper view when wing closed, meanng that we don´t see the growing primaries hidden underneath the visible fuller grown ones.
The p6 suggested is in fact p5, note the shape of the black band close to the tip with a pinched in pale wedge with a large white tip where´s p6 has a smaller white tip.
The black line underneath p5 could be the growing p6.If the white tongue belongs to p8 it would be a hell of a short one, it would rather be p9,but then again p9 is lower down.
Don´t yu think theat thre´s more primaries lying on top of p10and p9 and 8?
I think bird 1 in next post is a 2cy cachinnans, as nr 2, 3,4 and 5, suggest michahellis but note tail pattern with more dark on the outer t-feathers, typical jizz with a bulge at the upper breast, rather straight belly followed by a bulge nrear th e lower belly, can be more characteristic than this. Smallish head and shape of it looks cachinnans like and the bill looks rather slim with a flatish tip and not a very pronounced gonys. AAlso the last one looks cachinnans like - although the bill looks blunt-tipped - underwing pattern slightly variable.

Be back.

JanJ

 

[lou salomon]

thanks jan.

as for the p-pattern in the ad-like bird, i don't see any other primaries above p8, especially there are visible the tips of p10, p9 and p8 and no other, that's why i asked, but i may be wrong of course.

ok, i'm absolutely fine with a short billed 2cy cachinnans for bird 1 #564. although i think i saw at least one 1cy michahellis at the danube in the village and more (incl. one adult) at the closeby coast. but the vast majority there are caspian gulls.

 

[JANJ]

Some Caspians from Sept.to compare underwing and tail pattern: (all taken by Bengt Bengtsson)

http://www.microbirding.se/simrishamn/images/pictures/080909kaspisk2krevetBEBE2.jpg

http://www.microbirding.se/simrishamn/images/pictures/080909kaspisk2krevetBEBE3.jpg

http://www.microbirding.se/simrishamn/images/pictures/080909kaspisk2krevetBEBE1.jpg

http://www.microbirding.se/simrishamn/images/pictures/080905kaspisktrut2revetBEBE.jpg

http://www.microbirding.se/simrishamn/images/pictures/080905kaspisktrut1revetBEBE.jpg

April:

http://www.microbirding.se/simrishamn/images/pictures/080404medelhavstrut2krevet3BeBe.jpg

JanJ

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Pics taken today, september 19th, near Bucharest, Romania.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

More pics....

 

[Cristian Mihai]

... and more

 

[Cristian Mihai]

And so on...

 

[Cristian Mihai]

these are the last.

 

[JANJ]

Hello Cristian.

Nice bunch of moulting michahellis!

Note in image 3, 4 & 5 in post 571 how the bill varies in thickness and bluntness, changing from cachinnans to michahellis depending which image you loo at - especially image 3+5. Upper and underside of the primaries can´t be judge safely for cachinnans characters since we only see p 5+6+7.

Last one 2cy type michahellis

JanJ

 

[lou salomon]

hi cristian!

good to see pics of your bucharestian YLGs again. see the rel. homogenous stage of moult in the adults or near adults (black marks in the bill can indicate 4-5cy, but not necessarily) - they all have a growing p8, more or less grown, creating the separated dark triangle in underwing. all have shed p9, some have retained p10, most have it shed by now. this stage is typical in september, seen in michahellis of more western origin as well.

i don't see any caspian in these pics, and the 2 immatures are 1cy/1st winter plumage (first bird) and 2cy in 2nd winter plumage (see completed primary moult, all primaries being 2nd generation already).

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Unfortunately I spent there only one hour. It's a large population there, but I succeded to take pics only with maximum 10 large gulls...
Thank you for comments Lou and JanJ.

 

[lou salomon]

i have received a nice juv caspian pic from a birder of our group in the danube delta, mr. martin neub, that i want to share with you. taken in sfantu gheorghe, 2.09.2008.
this ind. (a male according to the strong bill, strong legs) looks more bleached on head than the 1st juv i photographed, shown above (#564,565) but it is also in strong light; bicoloured gr.coverts; triangular nostril (male, strong bill); white axilliaries; typically caspian broad black tail band not tapering towards outer rectrices as in most michahellis.

the other pic with the resting adults is from the same day, in the inner delta, lake rosu, merly atmospheric.

 

[lou salomon]

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=23363

 

[JANJ]

The Danish Gull is a Herring Gull and judged by the pale upperparts probably argenteus.
Structually more of Herring - compare with the other Herring.
The gull is in primary moult so the pattern might suggest otherwise than Herring.
The head streaking on this gull is pretty heavy,but variable in Herring.

JanJ

 

[lou salomon]

is that a black patch on primary coverts? means that the bird is subadult. surely the thayeri-pattern is an illusion caused by outer primary moult.