gulls (7 Viewers)

[JANJ]

Hi Lou.

The age of the flying gull in post 679 - is probably a 2nd - 3rd winter type - probably 3rd winter due to rather large mirror on p10 and clear grey inner primaries. Species, Caspian Gull.
I think - more than YLG - adults of Caspian sometimes lack - or almost so, the dark markings on p5. I have seen it in a few individuals over the years, but never on a YLG, at least what I supposed it was.

JanJ

 

[Cristian Mihai]

I took these pics today, January 5th. I would say (from left to right):
2cy YL, adult(?) Caspian, 3cy YL, adult YL, 3cy Caspian(?).
And I'm waiting for your opinion...

 

[lou salomon]

nice to see you back in 2009 with herastrau pics, cris!
i think you#re right with the species though i think the birds that you called adults (2 and 4 from left) are in fact subadults (4-5cy type) because even in these rel. small pics the primaries should show larger white tips in older birds. also large dark subterminal marks on bill indicate a younger age.

cheers

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Pics taken today (06.12.2009) in Tineretului Park, Bucharest. Sorry for the quality (it was snowing in the morning, the light was poor and I used a superzoom). In pics 9611 and 9613 it is the same bird.

 

[lou salomon]

hi cristian,

no need to apologize for the quality, they're good. michahellis only in the last pic, both adult type birds (the one in the foreground possibly also a younger one, 5cy?)

rest are very nice canus and cachinnans, especially the one with the spread wings. note the palish iris in the fourth pic. - btw. today i finally saw this species (steppenmöwe, caspian gull, pescarus pontic) in stuttgart as well, 2 young (2cy) birds, on with a deformed and pale coloured bill. together with some nordic goodies ..oh got to go on stage!

 

[Cristian Mihai]

I also have some pics with immature michahellis/cachinnans, but I need some time for post-processing. There are some pics with canus here:
http://birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=131116

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Some immature large gulls. I would say that in 9372 is a Caspian and all the others are YL. I have 20 more pics. I will post here another 5 tomorrow. If there is somebody how wants to see more, I'm waiting for a PM.

 

[lou salomon]

hm, i don't see any michahellis here, though the walking bird in pic 2 looks weird. all cachinnans for me. got to go home and look at them on the large monitor.

p.s. you know i want them ALL in largest possible resolution! B

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Hm, I think I'm a little bit too tired... Doesn't matter. Here are 5 more.

 

[lou salomon]

thanks cristian - now we have yellowlegged, the last 3 birds. very nice cachi wingtip in that younger(?) adult in the first pic and again a mirror in a caspian with 2nd gen primaries (pic 2). i've checked all pics i have of 2nd winter caspians and all with visible p10-tip had a mirror!
sleep well!

 

[lou salomon]

dark 1st winter cachinnans in stuttgart

today i went back to the petrol port at 11:00 and made some terrible photos under worst conditions (2 crying kids around my knees, dark like in a sun eclipse, a talking ancient (very old) birder woman beside me who scared my little daughter...she had heard about my sighting of 2 caspians yesterday.

not the 2 ind. from yesterday showed up but another one which for the first 5 minutes made me scratch my head. a pretty dark and well marked 1st winter prob. male caspian with unmistikable gr. covert pattern (pics 1, 3, 4) and a longish bill (-> pic 5). seeing only its tail pattern one would call it a herring gull!
- primary window is weaker than in typical herring (only inner webs are pale)
- it has a marked shawl (streaking on hindneck) and relatively pale head (not as pale=white as the typical birds yesterday!).
- undertail with strong stripes at the tail side (-> pic 7)
- bill with paler base on upper mandible (usually on lower)
- additional tail bands on tail sides (dorsal) as in many caspians

since even wing projection is short i wondered about one of those polish hybrids with argentatus or like those caspians showing up in finnland, latvia etc. with features of argentatus.
some cropped pics:

 

[lou salomon]

and some more on the water

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Today, January 7th, in Tineretului Park, Bucharest. See also: http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/229400/cat/500/ppuser/54311

 

[lou salomon]

superb photos of YLG, cristian! 2cy, 3cy and adults (in the gallery). the caspians seem to stay away from tineretului because of close distances to walking people? hopefully we'll find an adequate name for this species in romanian... what about "rock-and-roof gull"? :-O got to check your birds from 6.01 closer, i'm not convinced of all my spontaneous ids.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

superb photos of YLG, cristian! 2cy, 3cy and adults (in the gallery). the caspians seem to stay away from tineretului because of close distances to walking people? hopefully we'll find an adequate name for this species in romanian... what about "rock-and-roof gull"? :-O got to check your birds from 6.01 closer, i'm not convinced of all my spontaneous ids.

Ok Lou, tones of pics are on the way...

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Back to the rubbish pics from Jan 6...
Some 2cy michahellis.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

More pics...

 

[Cristian Mihai]

And the last pics from Jan 6.

 

[lou salomon]

still would like to hear opinions about the strong marked 1st winter bird (#691, 692) - caspian? in stuttgart.

cristian's latest pics imo show only YLGs although i'm not totally sure if the first bird couldn't be a short legged 2cy caspian.

1. 2cy (probably mich but has some caspian traits); bird in background 2cy mich
2. 2cy some new median coverts
3. 2cy quite typical
4. 2cy with some dull marked greyish scaps
5. 2cy with no(?) visible moult in coverts giving a plain dark brown appearance
6. 2cy with 2 moulted median coverts only (left wing)
7. 3cy classic
8. 2cy
9. 2cy again with such dull patterned, more adult like dark grey scaps - probably later moulted (recently) than the clear patterned ones
10. 3cy with advanced bill colouring
11. 2cy scap pattern resembles a bit that of many caspians (dark shaft streak)
12. adult (5cy+) plus 2_2cy
13. 4cy - has a visible p10 mirror

thanks for sharing,

 

[JANJ]

Cristians gull in image 1, 2 and 3 - post 687 looks like a michahellis. This is revealed by the much worn plumage, many second gen. coverts and structure, especially in image 3.
I also see the left gull in image 2 as michahellis, but not entierly sure.
I agree Lou, that your Stuttgart gull doesn´t make it all the way. The pattern on the wing looks alright, greater covert pattern but there seems to be a tendency for the inner primaries to be on the pale side, creating a Herring Gull like contrast, even if they seem to have the Caspian dark outer and pale inner web pattern. Tail band a little on the broad side for Caspian. The bill looks heavier at the tip and structure when on the water reminds of Herring. So might perhaps be a hybrid? Anyway, not the typical Caspian feel!

Cheek these Caspians from Spain.

http://www.larusfuscus.blogspot.com/

JanJ