gulls (2 Viewers)

[smiths]

had a weird 2cy common gull here in stuttgart today.
it appeared totally juvenile plumaged, no sign of grey on mantle and scaps. this is said to occure, but rare (according to olsen in "gulls") and on 'gull-research' they say that heinei often wears juv plumage well into december. so i assume it was heinei.

never seen that before, do you? any pics of such birds from midwinter?

Fully juvenile plumaged Common Gulls are rare indeed from mid-winter on. However, juvenile birds with only a few grey mantle feathers or upper scapulars occur regularly, at least in Belgium.
See e.g. this one from 13 December 2008 and this bird (left in the photo) from 2 January 2009.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Very interesting gull site (www.belgiangulls.webs.com), smiths.
I think that we'll have to build one for the romanian gulls... What's your opinion about this idea, Lou?

 

[smiths]

Very interesting gull site (www.belgiangulls.webs.com), smiths.

Yes indeed. The site is maintained by Pieter Vantieghem and all photos are his. It is a very recent project so expect more to come...

 

[lou salomon]

suiting this problematics:

http://www.club300.de/fotos2/heringsmoewe961338.jpg
http://www.club300.de/fotos2/heringsmoewe961193.jpg
http://www.club300.de/fotos2/heringsmoewe961245.jpg

a bird in northern germany called heuglin's gull. why? it is small and has a small and pretty short bill.

 

[lou salomon]

Very interesting gull site (www.belgiangulls.webs.com), smiths.
I think that we'll have to build one for the romanian gulls... What's your opinion about this idea, Lou?

i'm working on it, chris.

 

[lou salomon]

argentatus?

http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=35590&sid=2444d6183313009ba09fbd26019d3705

 

[Cristian Mihai]

http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=35590&sid=2444d6183313009ba09fbd26019d3705

IMHO it looks pretty good for a michahellis...

 

[lou salomon]

pretty good is an easy word to say. o why?
head shape looks strange due to "wryneck" position, bird is alert and stands really horizontal.
now what about those blackish tertials with a micha-like fringe in combination with the same micha-like GC-pattern (plainer outer, checkered inner) - this is what i thought about it possibly being a YLG. on the other hand, head shape looks pretty off (due stance?) and there's a lot of white in coverts, of which i can't see any being renewed.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

pretty good is an easy word to say. o why?
head shape looks strange due to "wryneck" position, bird is alert and stands really horizontal.
now what about those blackish tertials with a micha-like fringe in combination with the same micha-like GC-pattern (plainer outer, checkered inner) - this is what i thought about it possibly being a YLG. on the other hand, head shape looks pretty off (due stance?) and there's a lot of white in coverts, of which i can't see any being renewed.

Hi Lou,

My opinion was based on:
- the general appearance of the bird (at the first glance it screams: micha!); maybe the posture it isn't a very good one for drawing a conclusion, but I followed my instinct.
- the pattern of the GC;
- the shape of the bill.

P.S. On the other hand, try to gather arguments for Herring... My feeling is that this would be a hard job...

 

[lou salomon]

why is this a YLG

talking about michahellis head shape: this one is really strange (also in wryneck position).

hard to find any hard facts to exclude pontic (or by means, baltic argentatus) if one lets body shape apart. the only thing i found is the translucent p9 mirror which is pretty small, well and strong subterminal band on p10, but...

pic by razvan zinica, constanta, romanian black sea coast, 6.2.2009

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Some pics taken yesterday, Feb 9th. See also my gallery.

 

[lou salomon]

your last bird has pretty long tongues on p9 and 10. i really would be interested how many of those bucharest michahellis look like this since it seems that the majority still has the "ordinary" large amount of black in primary tips.

edit: compare these 2 underwing primary patterns (both birds from 9.2. by cristian)!

 

[Cristian Mihai]

The pics attached could be an answer. Variability is the key word. But maybe 80% are "classic" birds.

 

[lou salomon]

this is caspian pattern!

 

[JANJ]

Yes, as Lou say´s - Caspian wing pattern.

http://www.pbase.com/thomasluiten/studying_gulls

JanJ

 

[lou salomon]

caspian (mostly underwingpatterns, most from stephane's site):

http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/92294666
http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/73041188
http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/92294645
http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/57165987
http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/89691421
http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/71560885
http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/71871286
http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/71560882
http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/71871287
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_wpfoS655UiU/SUWIeKDhcrI/AAAAAAAABrI/QJvm_W_NZlU/s1600-h/_MG_3965.JPG

yellow-legged:

http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/74435782
http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/74435789
http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/58855913
http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/58855922
http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/61845252
http://www.pbase.com/stephaubry/image/61845183

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Lou, the birds from the post 773 are Caspian Gulls. You asked about YL Gulls with relative long tongues on P9&P10 and my idea was that such birds could be offspring of some hybrids Caspian x YL. These pics were taken on Dambovita river at the eastearn border of the city, a place where in 2008 I saw Caspians in late spring (may)...

 

[lou salomon]

with gulls it is not like in passerines that presence of ad birds during breeding time makes it probable that they breed nearby. nonbreeding birds can hang around all year at favourable places (with food supply). they are highly flexible and can move large distances in short time. but of course it would be very nice to have caspians as breeders near bucharest. maybe you should check vacaresti or other large marshes for them in spring time?

edit: i think they like lower dambovita because it's close to glina dump where prob. 1000-ns of gulls feed during the day and dambovita is one of the closer water bodies where they can bath.

both birds reposted in #772 i think are caspians as well. first i thought P2099019 would be an extreme YLG but slightly darker eye (apparently?) and leg colour also are in favour of caspian. p9 is rel. large too but possible for YLG.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Vacaresti it isn't a good place for large gulls. For Vacaresti we have only ridibundus as breeding gull species. The Glina dump would be an interesting place, I suppose...

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Now, some immature gulls.
I think that in the first pic is a 3cy Caspian (?) and in the second one a 4cy Caspian.
In the next 2 pics it is the only immature Common Gull seen by me on Feb 9th.