gulls (2 Viewers)

[lou salomon]

4cy michahellis and 4cy cachinnans - nice comparison!

in a 2nd winter bird, 3cy now of both sp. primary colour and coverts would be less advanced (underside whitish now, upperside mostly grey) and primaries are 3rd generation - mirror is too large and wrong shape for a 2nd gen. caspian p10 mirror (in this case too longish). also rectrices (tail) still have a black band in 2nd winter, sometimes broken like in the attached 3cy; i got 3 pics of that bird from you, it seemed to have passsed you three times in 6 minutes .. - often 2nd winter michahellis has a much darker underside than this bird but some are whitish like this.
so, a 3rd winter (4cy) - as compared to caspian which ususally has a larger p10 mirror (long) and a small p9 mirror at this age class.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Some immature micha. I suppose that the first one is a 3cy and the rest are 2cy...

 

[lou salomon]

nice to see more of these flightshots, cristian.
first one definitely gives a caspian impression with the long pointed (ascutit) bill - but apparently lacks a p10 mirror (which i found is rare in 2nd winter caspian, peter smith says it is more comon, 40 % but i don't believe that from the no. of pics i've seen and counted, mostly your's .) i'd be curious to hear more views on that bird (first pic, last post).

second bird also gives a caspian impression wuith the very white underside (for a 1st winter) and clear demarcated shawl, bill however looks blunt tipped, could be a male caspian, also more opinions welcomed on that one.

anymore shots of these 2 birds?

the other 3 are 2cy michahellis.

cheers,

 

[Cristian Mihai]

"it seemed to have passsed you three times in 6 minutes"

It is a simple explanation for this fact Lou. As I wrote before, in the area it is a "confluence" with a sewerage system. So, birds are drawing circles over the area. Usually, a bird covers such a circle in tens of seconds...

Unfortunately I don't have more pics with the birds from pics 1 and 2 from post # 782...

 

[lou salomon]

"it seemed to have passsed you three times in 6 minutes"

It is a simply explanation for this fact Lou. As I wrote before, in the area it is a "confluence" with a sewerage system. So, birds are drawing circles over the area. Usually, a bird covers such a circle in tens of seconds...

sure...so i should have said it has passed you in similar position at least 3 times in 6 minutes.:-O maybe it said hello or was keen on a fotoshooting.

 

[Cristian Mihai]

A last pic with an immature and one with an adult bird (this one an athmospheric photo...)

 

[Cristian Mihai]

sure...so i should have said it has passed you in similar position at least 3 times in 6 minutes.:-O maybe it said hello or was keen on a fotoshooting.

Or it was simply very hungry...

 

[lou salomon]

http://www.tarsiger.com/images/hytpe/Lararg_14.12.08_1.jpg
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/hytpe/Lararg_14.12.08_2.jpg

labelled as herring gull under the tarsiger "oddies"

could maybe heuglini or (which is maybe closer) fuscus be involved here? not structurally but plumagewise in this case. still looking for pics of 1st winter heuglini.

 

[ody]

Is this Gull a michachellis or a cachinans?

 

[lou salomon]

Is this Gull a michachellis or a cachinans?

its a michahellis. cachinnans has longer grey tongue on underside of p10 and a dark iris usually for starters), see the links in post 776.

 

[lou salomon]

selftrapped?

is this a cachinnans (see attached) or a dodgy michahellis. pic by luca andelean, don't know where in romania (8.10.2008)
plumagewise it looks more like a 1cy michahellis to me now (strong scap pattern, darkish coverts with broad pale fringes).

i'm afraid i'm the culprit of the id but can't track the event down.

second one definitive a beauty casp": http://i1.treknature.com/photos/6123/lar_mic_juv.jpg (24.1.2009 i think in constanta, black sea, foto: razvan zinica)

 

[JANJ]

Hi Lou - all.

I also think that the odd looking gull in post 791 is a michahellis.
The gull from Tarsiger is imo not a heuglin and I don´t see fuscus there either.
One could of course wonder why certain juv/first winter Herring, can be so different from the usual ones we see and I don´t know whether these are pure argentatus or not.
Structure, primary projection and pattern of inner primaries and unbarred axillaries is not especially good for heuglini/fuscus.

Compare with these proposed heuglini:

http://www.pbase.com/dophoto/image/89737859

Note coplete juv. plumage at this time of year:

http://www.pbase.com/dophoto/image/88760428

Some more Herrings:

http://www.elisanet.fi/antero.lindholm/public_html/lokki/arg1kv.htm

http://www.elisanet.fi/antero.lindholm/public_html/lokki/lararg1kvtumma.htm

http://www.tarsiger.com/gallery/index.php?pic_id=pirpa1189789655&lang=eng

JanJ

 

[lou salomon]

hi jan,

i meant if possibly heuglini is involved, i.e. never a pure heuglini but maybe some heuglini blood in there. we almost know nothing what happens up in the white sea, but since a good part of finnish argentatus show cachinnans features, either there could be some gene flow from northerly breeding cachinnans or russian hybrid populations or, and this is also a possibilty - heuglini could influence a small part of the northern population? very weak inner primary window and overall cold brown colour with little white speckling led me to this speculation. structure however is more argentatus of course.

i would have thought this: http://www.elisanet.fi/antero.lindholm/public_html/lokki/arg1kv/Lararg 20030815 Tre 092C9218.jpg to be a fuscus! irritating bird.

 

[JANJ]

A nice cachinnans:

http://www.iesmeulmeester.nl/fotos.php?actie=foto&subcatsub=410

JanJ

 

[lou salomon]

does any caspian (female?) show red on upper mandible?!? (re jan's comment)

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Today, feb 14th, I took some pics with some large gulls.
IMHO, the first one looks like a 2cy YL Gull...

 

[lou salomon]

looks perfect. only remarkable thing is the very clean white undertail coverts which usually is a trademark for caspian, but as we see - occures in ylg as well (and this one is typic in all other respects). i think i can see it was shot on dambovita again

 

[Cristian Mihai]

Yes on Dambovita. A very easy to identify individual (see the right wing).

 

[Cristian Mihai]

The second one looks like an adult Caspian...

 

[Cristian Mihai]

About the third one I'm only guessing: 3cy YL ?