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gulls (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter lou salomon
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lou salomon
the birdonist
another such advanced...
flying bird in post 960: it's a different one, see its bill which has the textbook black coloration - very nice pic to see primary moult though, i'll include it in my collection. thanks for sharing.
post 961: the bird on the left side had me left thinking. superficially it looked like a 3cy with retarded bill and leg coloration, but then i wondered if this isn't a very advanced 2cy (1st summer) bird. and yes, it is in my opinion only 1 year old, not 2! the most advanced i have seen yet, with adult grey coverts, not just scapulars! any other pics with this group?
see another such advanced bird, found in the collection, one of your mamaia birds from last year, cristian - but: it's one month later! (26.07.2008).
for comparison a blown up crop of the discussed 3cy from previous post - i'm sure cristian the original file is larger and you can provide a better crop of it?
flying bird in post 960: it's a different one, see its bill which has the textbook black coloration - very nice pic to see primary moult though, i'll include it in my collection. thanks for sharing.
post 961: the bird on the left side had me left thinking. superficially it looked like a 3cy with retarded bill and leg coloration, but then i wondered if this isn't a very advanced 2cy (1st summer) bird. and yes, it is in my opinion only 1 year old, not 2! the most advanced i have seen yet, with adult grey coverts, not just scapulars! any other pics with this group?
see another such advanced bird, found in the collection, one of your mamaia birds from last year, cristian - but: it's one month later! (26.07.2008).
for comparison a blown up crop of the discussed 3cy from previous post - i'm sure cristian the original file is larger and you can provide a better crop of it?
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Ies Meulmeester
Active member
Yes you're right, it's a 4cy! Note the dark black markings on the tail and primary coverts/alula and also the immature brown/blackish feathers on the upper-wing coverts.
http://www.gull-research.org/ylgadsubad/4cyjun/04cyjun.htm
http://www.gull-research.org/ylgadsubad/4cyjul/04cyjul.htm
Ies
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Hi Lou,
You'll receive an e-mail with a link to a server where you'll find some pics with the bird from post #961.
The link is:http://s4.transfer.ro/storage/transfer_ro-ed447b1a1d4a4792.zip
You'll receive an e-mail with a link to a server where you'll find some pics with the bird from post #961.
The link is:http://s4.transfer.ro/storage/transfer_ro-ed447b1a1d4a4792.zip
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lou salomon
the birdonist
muchos gracias!
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
BTW, I was in Mamaia and Navodari in the last week-end
. Soon I will upload some pics with michahellis (juveniles, adults and so on...).
lou salomon
the birdonist
2cy or 3cy
that's the question.
about cristian's bird from 24.6. which i thought to be a very advanced 2cy. now i'm not so sure anymore. there is a growing p4(?) visible with a black subterminal mark, but even in second generation primaries this could be as greyish as it is here and with such a large white tips (inner primaries have large white tip, outers not).
it also has a distinct collar which i haven't seen in 3cy at this time yet.
take a look, ies, do you think it's a retarded 3cy now?
that's the question.
about cristian's bird from 24.6. which i thought to be a very advanced 2cy. now i'm not so sure anymore. there is a growing p4(?) visible with a black subterminal mark, but even in second generation primaries this could be as greyish as it is here and with such a large white tips (inner primaries have large white tip, outers not).
it also has a distinct collar which i haven't seen in 3cy at this time yet.
take a look, ies, do you think it's a retarded 3cy now?
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lou salomon
the birdonist
what an incredible frontal view of a little tern: http://www.birdpix.nl/album_page.php?pic_id=178826&recent=1&sid=164c00253136848f7c28fb75f9f3c44f
Ies Meulmeester
Active member
Lou, yes I think it's a 3cy. I think that p4 give a good indication to age this one. A pattern as shown on this primary with a plain grey base color with dark blackish subterminal band and a broad and large white tip fits a third generation primary much better! Note also the moult in the upper-parts, the new plain grey adult-like upper-tertials, scapulars and coverts which are too advanced for a 2cy in my opinion.
Compare the upper-parts with this one:
http://www.gull-research.org/ylgadsubad/3cyjune/micha2238.htm
Check this very advanced 2cy:
http://www.gull-research.org/ylg1cy2cy/2cyjuly/micha5627.htm
Ies
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
In the first 2 pics it is the first 1cy Yellow-legged seen by my this summer. Sorry for the quality (it was early in the morning...). The last 3 pics are with another one. Pics taken on June 28th in Mamaia, Black Sea coast.
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
lou salomon
the birdonist
hej!
it's a bird from the series joseph took at the black sea coast north of constanta (vadu/chituc) on 11.08.2007. might be that we have discussed the bird already and leaned towards michahellis but in my eyes this is a young cachinnans. not definitely, but bill tip is very pointed, hardly any gonys, very white head, upright stance and especially thumbnail like (broader) tertial crescents led me to this ID. i think bill is not yet fully grown. but i may be wrong of course. surely all these things can apply to YLG as well and the bold scapular pattern is in favour of michahellis but not impossible for caspian.
:eat:
it's a bird from the series joseph took at the black sea coast north of constanta (vadu/chituc) on 11.08.2007. might be that we have discussed the bird already and leaned towards michahellis but in my eyes this is a young cachinnans. not definitely, but bill tip is very pointed, hardly any gonys, very white head, upright stance and especially thumbnail like (broader) tertial crescents led me to this ID. i think bill is not yet fully grown. but i may be wrong of course. surely all these things can apply to YLG as well and the bold scapular pattern is in favour of michahellis but not impossible for caspian.
:eat:
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
lou salomon
the birdonist
hi cristian,
it could even be an adult. quite some adult YLG have no p9 mirror. if this variation is tendetially sex related (i think jan has said once that females tend to have less large white mirrors/more black in primary tips) or not - i don't know. it could of course be a younger adult like 5cy or even 4cy (with no traces of black in tail and no visible dark lesser coverts from underside).
thanks for showing these.
especially the dark eyed bird (did you remember if it was 3cy or 4cy?, i can't make it out properly but it looks more 3cy), which isn't too common in michahellis,
as well as the variation in juvenile greater coverts and tertial pattern in the images in '971 and 972! note especially the herring gull like oakleaf pattern in tertials: http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=204700&d=1246387010
noroc!
it could even be an adult. quite some adult YLG have no p9 mirror. if this variation is tendetially sex related (i think jan has said once that females tend to have less large white mirrors/more black in primary tips) or not - i don't know. it could of course be a younger adult like 5cy or even 4cy (with no traces of black in tail and no visible dark lesser coverts from underside).
thanks for showing these.
especially the dark eyed bird (did you remember if it was 3cy or 4cy?, i can't make it out properly but it looks more 3cy), which isn't too common in michahellis,
as well as the variation in juvenile greater coverts and tertial pattern in the images in '971 and 972! note especially the herring gull like oakleaf pattern in tertials: http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=204700&d=1246387010
noroc!
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Hi Lou,
About the dark eyed bird - I saw it only as you can see it now in the pics, so it's hard to decide, but I would also say 3cy.
About the dark eyed bird - I saw it only as you can see it now in the pics, so it's hard to decide, but I would also say 3cy.
lou salomon
the birdonist
again about the adult like bird in #976, cristian (http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=205030&d=1246565901)
it's definitely a 4cy or 5cy since it has traces of dark on alula (near wing bend).
it's definitely a 4cy or 5cy since it has traces of dark on alula (near wing bend).
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Great, so in #976 we have all non-adult michahellis types.
