lou salomon
the birdonist
sure, at least i'd like to see them, just send them by mail please. i didn't work on the website in the last time as you may have observed but surely this one is a good one, thanks.:t:
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gulls (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter lou salomon
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Howard King
Guest
lou salomon
the birdonist
hi cristian,
your 1cy micha looks rather "untidy", the juvenile feathers are used already (abraded fringes) and the whole bird looks slightly unwell (not as much though as the spoiled one you recently posted on rombirdnet!) but greater covert pattern is also slightly unclear. and we see the few new fisrt winter scaps, at this moment still with a gingery tone.
hi howard,
here we go again with the 3 challenge species. honestly without an open wing (to see primary pattern and at least possibly pick out caspian), this is hard. i get a strong heuglini feel for your first bird, the cachinnans-like bill and pale base together with darker mantle tone. the second could be either a male barabensis (paler mantle, dark subterminal mark to bill, rel. bright yellow legs (although we don't see wingtip to see if it is a full adult) - could well be a cachinnans as well with that long bill although yellow legs are not in favour of cachinnans at this time of year.
cheers and keep 'em coming, howard!
your 1cy micha looks rather "untidy", the juvenile feathers are used already (abraded fringes) and the whole bird looks slightly unwell (not as much though as the spoiled one you recently posted on rombirdnet!) but greater covert pattern is also slightly unclear. and we see the few new fisrt winter scaps, at this moment still with a gingery tone.
hi howard,
here we go again with the 3 challenge species. honestly without an open wing (to see primary pattern and at least possibly pick out caspian), this is hard. i get a strong heuglini feel for your first bird, the cachinnans-like bill and pale base together with darker mantle tone. the second could be either a male barabensis (paler mantle, dark subterminal mark to bill, rel. bright yellow legs (although we don't see wingtip to see if it is a full adult) - could well be a cachinnans as well with that long bill although yellow legs are not in favour of cachinnans at this time of year.
cheers and keep 'em coming, howard!
lou salomon
the birdonist
2 vancouver puzzlers
GENTOO, JAN...
hi there,
just got 2 pics of LWHG from vancouver, canada, by my friend ciprian fantana. the first bird he labelled as western gull, the second as (american) herring gull, but he wanted confirmation. the pics where taken recently (28.08. and 29.08.).
both look like 4cy types.
to me no.1 looks more like an "olympic gull" - occidentalis x glaucescens due to rel. plain cloudy basic head/neck/breast pattern. the bird is colour ringed, blue on right leg - maybe that helps? do you know anything about those ringing programmes, shonn? i've slightly lightened the pic up since it seemed to be taken in bad light.
no. 2 to me also looks hybridish and i think smithsonianus surely is one of the parents (if not a pure am. herring). irritating is the very strong bill and a brown iris in 4th (?) basic plumage. smith x glaucescens? :smoke:
edit: added 2 more pics of bird 1. probably a 3rd winter, i.e. 3cy, and not 4cy? still thinking olympic because of strong pattern extending to breast.
any ideas? thanks in advance
GENTOO, JAN...
hi there,
just got 2 pics of LWHG from vancouver, canada, by my friend ciprian fantana. the first bird he labelled as western gull, the second as (american) herring gull, but he wanted confirmation. the pics where taken recently (28.08. and 29.08.).
both look like 4cy types.
to me no.1 looks more like an "olympic gull" - occidentalis x glaucescens due to rel. plain cloudy basic head/neck/breast pattern. the bird is colour ringed, blue on right leg - maybe that helps? do you know anything about those ringing programmes, shonn? i've slightly lightened the pic up since it seemed to be taken in bad light.
no. 2 to me also looks hybridish and i think smithsonianus surely is one of the parents (if not a pure am. herring). irritating is the very strong bill and a brown iris in 4th (?) basic plumage. smith x glaucescens? :smoke:
edit: added 2 more pics of bird 1. probably a 3rd winter, i.e. 3cy, and not 4cy? still thinking olympic because of strong pattern extending to breast.
any ideas? thanks in advance
Attachments
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Hi Lou,
The bird posted on rombird it is also here:
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/270278/ppuser/54311
The bird posted on rombird it is also here:
http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/270278/ppuser/54311
Howard King
Guest
HI LOU
they wouldn't fly when pushed they swam the Terns of course just went with a wosh
barabensis normally first in - Hope JanJ passes by would be nice to read his comments..
they wouldn't fly when pushed they swam the Terns of course just went with a wosh
barabensis normally first in - Hope JanJ passes by would be nice to read his comments..
JANJ
Well-known member
HI Howard.
Nice as always with gulls from your region. However, notoriously difficult, especially in a view like this (and of course from single images, but fun anyway).
While the first one might be Siberian (heuglini) and the second one cachinnans/barabensis, (Caspian/Steppe), the posibilities of something else, like both being barabensis might be a realistic suggestion. Anyway - if a gutt feeling is worth anything - I´d say heuglini - first and barabensis - second one.
JanJ
Nice as always with gulls from your region. However, notoriously difficult, especially in a view like this (and of course from single images, but fun anyway).
While the first one might be Siberian (heuglini) and the second one cachinnans/barabensis, (Caspian/Steppe), the posibilities of something else, like both being barabensis might be a realistic suggestion. Anyway - if a gutt feeling is worth anything - I´d say heuglini - first and barabensis - second one.
JanJ
Howard King
Guest
Thanks people just couldn't decide myself - as gull numbers build I will add more
Gentoo
Guest
Hi Lou. Funny you sent me this as I happen to be in Seattle at the moment and I am seeing lots of gulls like this now. 1.3 and 4 are definitely standard "Olympic" Gulls. They are numerous along the coast from Western Washington up to southern Vancouver Is. This is the area where the original hybridization of WEGU and GWGU took place.
Number 2 is interesting indeed. It does have that Herring Gull type look to it with that paler mantel shade and flat crown. While I wouldn't completely rule that out, it's still a bit early for anything Herring Gull to make even this far south just yet. There's still about 3 weeks or so before the first few Herring Gulls or their hybrids begin to appear. One of the things about Glaucous-Winged Gulls is that they can often have proportions like Herring Gulls (and like Thayer's for that matter). I would make an educated guess that this bird could be a backcross with a pure GWGU. I've seen several of these types myself in the few days I've been up here and some I was only able to identify for sure by voice and long call display which is different than a HEGU.
EDIT: I should also add that these could be advanced 3rd winter type birds as well. Western and Gluacous-Winged, like Glaucous and Great Blacked-Backed Gulls, can often have rather advanced plumages especially Western. Second winter birds of these two can often be quite white in areas where other gulls are still sooty and/or gray.
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lou salomon
the birdonist
thanks a lot, gentoo! note that i'd revised my initial ageing and also thought (at least for the 1st bird (pics 1, 3 and 4) to be an advanced 3cy (3rd winter).
your ID definitely confirmes my feelings, especially with no. 1 although i have based my ID only on the strongly hooded appearance.
so your "educated guess" for no. 2 would be smith x GWG backcrossed with GWG?
your ID definitely confirmes my feelings, especially with no. 1 although i have based my ID only on the strongly hooded appearance.
so your "educated guess" for no. 2 would be smith x GWG backcrossed with GWG?
Gentoo
Guest
Actually I was thinking it was an "Olympic" backcrossed with GWG. They can look very Herring like especially when they backcrosss with GWG.
Beware, they can also look very Thayer's like. To the point where some cannot be safety identified without an open wing.
lou salomon
the birdonist
armenian gulls on netfugl
good, detailed pics of armenian gulls by ole zoltan göller today on netfugl. shot on 3.08.2008, they show some of the variation in 1cy wing coverts (darker in one and more patterned with white in the other) as well as flocks and a nice flying adult bird.
flock with some 1cy (note pale underwings!) http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/29406_UU_16937_armmaageflok.jpg
a 3cy: http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/29406_UU_16937_armmaageflok.jpg
a beautiful 1cy showing how white underwing is (including axilliaries) - prob. more towards the pale extreme: http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/29407_UU_16936_armmaage4.jpg
also a 1cy with pale median and greater underwing coverts but rel. dark and unpatterned greater upperwing coverts:http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/29408_UU_16935_armmaage3.jpg
1cy with stronger patterned greater coverts: http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/29409_UU_16934_armmaage2.jpg
ad (moulting primaries), note pigmented iris: http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/29413_UU_16933_armmaage1.jpg
:t:
good, detailed pics of armenian gulls by ole zoltan göller today on netfugl. shot on 3.08.2008, they show some of the variation in 1cy wing coverts (darker in one and more patterned with white in the other) as well as flocks and a nice flying adult bird.
flock with some 1cy (note pale underwings!) http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/29406_UU_16937_armmaageflok.jpg
a 3cy: http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/29406_UU_16937_armmaageflok.jpg
a beautiful 1cy showing how white underwing is (including axilliaries) - prob. more towards the pale extreme: http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/29407_UU_16936_armmaage4.jpg
also a 1cy with pale median and greater underwing coverts but rel. dark and unpatterned greater upperwing coverts:http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/29408_UU_16935_armmaage3.jpg
1cy with stronger patterned greater coverts: http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/29409_UU_16934_armmaage2.jpg
ad (moulting primaries), note pigmented iris: http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures/birds_user_uploads/29413_UU_16933_armmaage1.jpg
:t:
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Gentoo
Guest
Great shots!
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
lou salomon
the birdonist
hi cristian,
quite an interesting bird, since it superficially looks like a 2cy. but with those clear and large p10 mirrors and the all grey mantle and MC it is much more likely that this is a retarded 3cy, retarded in bare parts and wing coloration. primaries have somehow a pattern like 2cy indeed but the white mirror is all wrong. it's not a cachi with that head and GC and tertial pattern. i'd love to hear other's comments as to the age of this YLG too.
cheers
quite an interesting bird, since it superficially looks like a 2cy. but with those clear and large p10 mirrors and the all grey mantle and MC it is much more likely that this is a retarded 3cy, retarded in bare parts and wing coloration. primaries have somehow a pattern like 2cy indeed but the white mirror is all wrong. it's not a cachi with that head and GC and tertial pattern. i'd love to hear other's comments as to the age of this YLG too.
cheers
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Yep, a strange one indeed. Very hard to age, I would say... BTW, it is darker than the others or is an optical illusion?
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