Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
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http://www.talk.gull-research.org/index.php
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gulls (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter lou salomon
- Start date
Herring Gull showing some Smiths features.
Hi folks, Wonder if anyone would care to comment on this adult-type Herring Gull that has been present in North-west Britain for over a week.Its instantly obvious by its heavy head and breast streaking/smudging.Also its pale mantle seems to eliminate Argentatus( about 20 about at the moment and c2000Argenteus).Unfortunately no decent upperwing pics have been taken yet but I`ve included a sketch of its primaries.
cheers,S View attachment 226917
View attachment 226918
Hi folks, Wonder if anyone would care to comment on this adult-type Herring Gull that has been present in North-west Britain for over a week.Its instantly obvious by its heavy head and breast streaking/smudging.Also its pale mantle seems to eliminate Argentatus( about 20 about at the moment and c2000Argenteus).Unfortunately no decent upperwing pics have been taken yet but I`ve included a sketch of its primaries.
cheers,S View attachment 226917
View attachment 226918
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Hi, heres the sketch of its primaries.
View attachment 226919
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
lou salomon
the birdonist
hi cristian,
it's rather an adult bird: note the old p9 and p10 tips both with large mirrors, no hints of immature dark on alula and primary coverts. the old feathers of course have a brownish hue and lesser coverts seem to be wet - maybe that's what made you think it is a 4cy? in caspian gull adults in basic (nonbreeding) plumage often have such colourless bills with clear dark subterminal marks - more often than in michahellis.
primary moult score: new p1-4 fully grown, p5 with a strong subterminal band almost grown, p6-7 missing, p8-10 old.
it's rather an adult bird: note the old p9 and p10 tips both with large mirrors, no hints of immature dark on alula and primary coverts. the old feathers of course have a brownish hue and lesser coverts seem to be wet - maybe that's what made you think it is a 4cy? in caspian gull adults in basic (nonbreeding) plumage often have such colourless bills with clear dark subterminal marks - more often than in michahellis.
primary moult score: new p1-4 fully grown, p5 with a strong subterminal band almost grown, p6-7 missing, p8-10 old.
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Thank you for your answer Lou. Yes, the brown hue made me think it isn't an adult bird, but as you wrote, I also noted the large mirrors on p9 and p10...
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JANJ
Well-known member
Hello snowcap.
No respons to your question I´m afraid. I would say that from these pic at least I can´t verify smithsonianus for your gull, it might well be a European Herring (argenteus). In the wing illustration that broad dark mark in p5 is interesting and would be extremely rare, if not impossible for argentatus. In one of the images it looks paler than the accompanying Herrings (argenteus i suppose), which would be a first step to look more closely on this gull. However, judging this in images is not so advisable. Extensive head markings is also seen in European Herrings.
I think Peter A can contribute much more on this topic.
JanJ
No respons to your question I´m afraid. I would say that from these pic at least I can´t verify smithsonianus for your gull, it might well be a European Herring (argenteus). In the wing illustration that broad dark mark in p5 is interesting and would be extremely rare, if not impossible for argentatus. In one of the images it looks paler than the accompanying Herrings (argenteus i suppose), which would be a first step to look more closely on this gull. However, judging this in images is not so advisable. Extensive head markings is also seen in European Herrings.
I think Peter A can contribute much more on this topic.
JanJ
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Thank you for your input JanJ. The bill colors are a little bit unusual for an adult Caspian, but I have to say that I've seen pics with adult birds with similar colors. On the other hand, it's a fact that all the other adult birds seen by me there looked different. For comparison see:
http://www.talk.gull-research.org/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=62
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Hi JanJ, thanks for your input on this Gull.It is still present and has been studied closely over the last week.It is paler than the accompanying Argenteus, there are only about 20 Argentatus around at the moment.We only get large numbers of argentatus here during harsh weather in mid-winter.The broad markings on P5 are really distinctive as are the tongues or `bayonets` on p10 and p9.Whilst fully aware of the variability in head streaking/smudging,this bird easily has the heaviest head and breast markings of any of the 2000+ Herring Gulls using this site at the moment.
An intriguing bird!
cheers,S
An intriguing bird!
cheers,S
lou salomon
the birdonist
sorry jan, but i don't see any brownish immature markings in this gull. as said old feathers have a slight brownish hue which is absolute normal compared to the fresh inner primaries, lesser and median coverts. the wet Lc are very used and thus appear dark in between the new coverts. and i have yet to see 3rd gen caspian primaries with adult like mirrors. p9 mirror is too large to be a 3rd gen primary!
Hi JanJ, up to now I`ve been unable to get anything decent on the open wing as I am only digiscoping and the bird is quite mobile..but I`ll keep on trying! I have got a pic of the upperwing slightly open when perched and one of the underwing,again when perched.
cheers,S View attachment 227329
View attachment 227331
cheers,S View attachment 227329
View attachment 227331
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Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
lou salomon
the birdonist
text on the buoy says: "swimming prohibited"
any cachis, cris?
any cachis, cris?
Cristian Mihai
Cristian Mihai
Hi Lou,
This pic was taken in Tineretului and it was the only large gull seen by me there. It's too early for large gulls there. As you know, Tineretului it's a really hot spot for large gulls, but we'll have to wait for negative temperatures...
lou salomon
the birdonist
looks like an adult, ody. they can show a dark mark on bill in autumn/winter too. on the other hand it could also be an advanced 4cy, some look identical to adults at this time of year, including the large apical spots.
View attachment 229206
Hi folks, any comments would be welcome on the attached pic.Taken at my local landfill site/nature reserve,in England, earlier this year.
This was a tiny bird much smaller than the Argenteus/Argentatus nearby and much more so than the 10+ Michahellis also present.In fact it was much closer in size to Ring-billed Gull.It was very short legged and long winged but much paler than even the palest Graellsii Lesser-Black backeds present.
look forward to your replies.
This was a tiny bird much smaller than the Argenteus/Argentatus nearby and much more so than the 10+ Michahellis also present.In fact it was much closer in size to Ring-billed Gull.It was very short legged and long winged but much paler than even the palest Graellsii Lesser-Black backeds present.
look forward to your replies.
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