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<blockquote data-quote="lou salomon" data-source="post: 1376313" data-attributes="member: 16268"><p>it has the structure and size of a male bird. a michahellis with such a typical cachinnans bill??? maybe.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>agreed, i think plumagewise it looks better for michahellis, one of those with dull dark grey scaps (later moulted?) - but if michahellis: see how upright it looks and high breasted - well, it is hunched probably due to minus temperatures...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>now this sounds like a noble way to express that you feel it is a herring gull, right? i could reply with the same phrase: it doesn't make it all the way to <em>herring gull</em>.o<img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p>- there is not only the gr. covert pattern but bill is long and not <em>too</em> tip heavy in my opinion, the tail had additional narrow wave bands an the sides towards tail base, definitely dark outer webs in the 'window', tertial pattern is almost michahellis like with a narrow pale border reaching only to the middle of the outermost tertial and in flight it gave the impression of a large, elegant bird (but i may be wrong in this).</p><p>- on the other heand of course many things obviously seem wrong. i'm really sorry i couldn't manage to take better pics of this interesting bird but for me it certainly has features of both caspian and herring gull. </p><p></p><p>i'd like to hear more opinions about it. </p><p></p><p>some links to birds with similar features, all ided as caspians (i know this is not the way to clinch an id on a single ind., just to show some variation) -</p><p></p><p>talking about broad tailband and strong uppertail pattern: </p><p></p><p>26.7.2004 espoo <a href="http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/11_Rantalinnut/11h_Lokit/larcac_20040726_espoo_linaj/Ammass-7424.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/11_Rantalinnut/11h_Lokit/larcac_20040726_espoo_linaj/Ammass-7424.jpg</a></p><p></p><p>11.10.2005 nokia</p><p><a href="http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/11_Rantalinnut/11h_Lokit/larcac_20051011_nokia_kosha/IMG_3327.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/11_Rantalinnut/11h_Lokit/larcac_20051011_nokia_kosha/IMG_3327.jpg</a></p><p></p><p>same bird <a href="http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/11_Rantalinnut/11h_Lokit/larcac_20051011_nokia_kosha/IMG_3439.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/11_Rantalinnut/11h_Lokit/larcac_20051011_nokia_kosha/IMG_3439.jpg</a> </p><p>this could be a hybrid with that tail and pale on both webs on inner primaries!</p><p></p><p>some of these latvian birds have a pretty wide tail band and a lot of dark patches on uppertail though admittedly the contrast between the solid black band and the base is stronger (see birds 2 and 6): <a href="http://www.elisanet.fi/hj.koskinen/1cyCachs_Riga2008.html" target="_blank">http://www.elisanet.fi/hj.koskinen/1cyCachs_Riga2008.html</a></p><p></p><p>talking about strong patterning on uppertail – though black band is clear cut contrasting to upper tail the additional narrow waved bands are going well up to the uppertail coverts in this bird (gorgier, swizzerland, 24.1008): <a href="http://i.pbase.com/o3/09/645509/1/104965016.jpOy9iW5.IMG_8659.jpg" target="_blank">http://i.pbase.com/o3/09/645509/1/104965016.jpOy9iW5.IMG_8659.jpg</a></p><p></p><p>talking about a heavy bill tip in cachinnans, it sometimes happens (though unusual):</p><p></p><p>4.07.2006 oulu: <a href="http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Bruun/lar_cac_derterius_003.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Bruun/lar_cac_derterius_003.jpg</a></p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Bruun/lar_cac_derterius_002.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Bruun/lar_cac_derterius_002.jpg</a> (same bird)</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.birding.ch/gulls/steppenmoewe/img/2yRapperswil0203033.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.birding.ch/gulls/steppenmoewe/img/2yRapperswil0203033.jpg</a></p><p></p><p>strongly patterned (with a lot of head streaking) into february (we could discuss if this really is a caspian but pic is not very good):</p><p></p><p><a href="http://www.birding.ch/gulls/steppenmoewe/img/2yRomanshorn2202031.jpg" target="_blank">http://www.birding.ch/gulls/steppenmoewe/img/2yRomanshorn2202031.jpg</a></p><p></p><p>i hope you don't get me wrong. i don't want to turn a bird into a caspian that is not a caspian! just there are many things that are wrong for herring as well. </p><p></p><p>and attached some of the pics lightened a bit</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="lou salomon, post: 1376313, member: 16268"] it has the structure and size of a male bird. a michahellis with such a typical cachinnans bill??? maybe. agreed, i think plumagewise it looks better for michahellis, one of those with dull dark grey scaps (later moulted?) - but if michahellis: see how upright it looks and high breasted - well, it is hunched probably due to minus temperatures... now this sounds like a noble way to express that you feel it is a herring gull, right? i could reply with the same phrase: it doesn't make it all the way to [I]herring gull[/I].o:D - there is not only the gr. covert pattern but bill is long and not [I]too[/I] tip heavy in my opinion, the tail had additional narrow wave bands an the sides towards tail base, definitely dark outer webs in the 'window', tertial pattern is almost michahellis like with a narrow pale border reaching only to the middle of the outermost tertial and in flight it gave the impression of a large, elegant bird (but i may be wrong in this). - on the other heand of course many things obviously seem wrong. i'm really sorry i couldn't manage to take better pics of this interesting bird but for me it certainly has features of both caspian and herring gull. i'd like to hear more opinions about it. some links to birds with similar features, all ided as caspians (i know this is not the way to clinch an id on a single ind., just to show some variation) - talking about broad tailband and strong uppertail pattern: 26.7.2004 espoo [url]http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/11_Rantalinnut/11h_Lokit/larcac_20040726_espoo_linaj/Ammass-7424.jpg[/url] 11.10.2005 nokia [url]http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/11_Rantalinnut/11h_Lokit/larcac_20051011_nokia_kosha/IMG_3327.jpg[/url] same bird [url]http://www.bongariliitto.fi/kuvat/11_Rantalinnut/11h_Lokit/larcac_20051011_nokia_kosha/IMG_3439.jpg[/url] this could be a hybrid with that tail and pale on both webs on inner primaries! some of these latvian birds have a pretty wide tail band and a lot of dark patches on uppertail though admittedly the contrast between the solid black band and the base is stronger (see birds 2 and 6): [url]http://www.elisanet.fi/hj.koskinen/1cyCachs_Riga2008.html[/url] talking about strong patterning on uppertail – though black band is clear cut contrasting to upper tail the additional narrow waved bands are going well up to the uppertail coverts in this bird (gorgier, swizzerland, 24.1008): [url]http://i.pbase.com/o3/09/645509/1/104965016.jpOy9iW5.IMG_8659.jpg[/url] talking about a heavy bill tip in cachinnans, it sometimes happens (though unusual): 4.07.2006 oulu: [url]http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Bruun/lar_cac_derterius_003.jpg[/url] [url]http://www.tarsiger.com/images/Bruun/lar_cac_derterius_002.jpg[/url] (same bird) [url]http://www.birding.ch/gulls/steppenmoewe/img/2yRapperswil0203033.jpg[/url] strongly patterned (with a lot of head streaking) into february (we could discuss if this really is a caspian but pic is not very good): [url]http://www.birding.ch/gulls/steppenmoewe/img/2yRomanshorn2202031.jpg[/url] i hope you don't get me wrong. i don't want to turn a bird into a caspian that is not a caspian! just there are many things that are wrong for herring as well. and attached some of the pics lightened a bit [/QUOTE]
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