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Harpia 95 Depth Of Field At Full Zoom. (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Simmo1111
- Start date
Thanks OhWeh.
Just to be sure then. Should I be able to 'pass through' both sides of the focus point with a very small (and very slow) turn of the focus wheel in either direction? Instead of having to turn the wheel (still slowly) much further to get the same result?
Thanks for the reply.
Just to be sure then. Should I be able to 'pass through' both sides of the focus point with a very small (and very slow) turn of the focus wheel in either direction? Instead of having to turn the wheel (still slowly) much further to get the same result?
Thanks for the reply.
OhWeh
Well-known member
You know and feel, that the focus wheel has various resistance depending how far you turn the wheel?
"FocusingThe ZEISS Victory Harpia has a focus ring (8) that you can use to focus yourimage depending on the distance.The innovative Dual Speed Focusing DSF makes focusing possible at variable speed without changing your grip. The switch-over is carried out automatically by a reliable precision mechanism, which functions excellently even at low temperatures.As long as you turn the focusing constantly in one direction, fast focusing is primarily activated. Always focus slightly beyond the optimal focus point with fast focusing. As soon as the turning direction is changed, fine focusing is activated, offering precise sharp focusing on the finest details. Once you become familiar with it, you will observe how the DSF intuitively enables quick and precise focusing.Note: When switching, you will notice that the fine focus adjusts more easily than the quick focus"
"FocusingThe ZEISS Victory Harpia has a focus ring (8) that you can use to focus yourimage depending on the distance.The innovative Dual Speed Focusing DSF makes focusing possible at variable speed without changing your grip. The switch-over is carried out automatically by a reliable precision mechanism, which functions excellently even at low temperatures.As long as you turn the focusing constantly in one direction, fast focusing is primarily activated. Always focus slightly beyond the optimal focus point with fast focusing. As soon as the turning direction is changed, fine focusing is activated, offering precise sharp focusing on the finest details. Once you become familiar with it, you will observe how the DSF intuitively enables quick and precise focusing.Note: When switching, you will notice that the fine focus adjusts more easily than the quick focus"
Thanks again OhWeh,
I feel that the focus wheel has a tighter feel when I turn it quickly and then when I slow down and then turn slowly, it is much looser. I presume that the tighter feel is the coarse focus and then when its easier to turn the wheel this is the fine focus. If for instance, I turn the wheel clockwise, I feel it loose and then I reach a point where it gets a little harder to turn, then going the other direction, the looseness is there for a short distance and then it tightens again.
Does that sound right? All that said, turning the wheel really slowly still misses the focus point either way.
I'll play with it again tomorrow and see if I am able to make sense of it.
Thanks for your help.
I feel that the focus wheel has a tighter feel when I turn it quickly and then when I slow down and then turn slowly, it is much looser. I presume that the tighter feel is the coarse focus and then when its easier to turn the wheel this is the fine focus. If for instance, I turn the wheel clockwise, I feel it loose and then I reach a point where it gets a little harder to turn, then going the other direction, the looseness is there for a short distance and then it tightens again.
Does that sound right? All that said, turning the wheel really slowly still misses the focus point either way.
I'll play with it again tomorrow and see if I am able to make sense of it.
Thanks for your help.
So ...
Zeiss have been extremely helpful and have been kind enough to send me a new Harpia. The focusing is exactly the same as my old one so now I can see that the problem is entirely down to my inability to adapt to the new way of focusing as opposed to being anything wrong with the scope.
Having used a Nikon ED 82mm Fieldscope for the last 10 years, my 'normal' way of focusing doesn't work with the dual speed focus arrangement of the Harpia and therefore it left me thinking that the focus at 70x zoom wasn't working correctly. This would explain the results of the star test which I did as I wasn't actually using the focus as I should have been. I've done a seawatch with the new scope tonight along with a friend who has many years of experience with optics and he has tried the Harpia himself. He can see the problem I have with focus hunting at full zoom and we both agreed that when you are panning at 70x zoom and trying to focus at the same time on a bird which is miles away. It's just too much to expect to be able to get a sharp image.
I would be interested to hear from any Kowa/ Swaro users who are able to pan and focus at full zoom at the same time though. My verdict is that the 70x zoom will be brilliant for any bird which is reasonably still and not too far away but not so much for things in flight which are a long way off.
I guess that I'm going to need to use the scope as much as possible in lots of differing scenarios in order to get to grips with the strange dual focusing operation. That, or trade it in for a Kowa or a Swarovski ATX if it turns out that these can do what my Harpia can't?
Thanks to everyone who has replied to my original query, you have all been very helpful.
Zeiss have been extremely helpful and have been kind enough to send me a new Harpia. The focusing is exactly the same as my old one so now I can see that the problem is entirely down to my inability to adapt to the new way of focusing as opposed to being anything wrong with the scope.
Having used a Nikon ED 82mm Fieldscope for the last 10 years, my 'normal' way of focusing doesn't work with the dual speed focus arrangement of the Harpia and therefore it left me thinking that the focus at 70x zoom wasn't working correctly. This would explain the results of the star test which I did as I wasn't actually using the focus as I should have been. I've done a seawatch with the new scope tonight along with a friend who has many years of experience with optics and he has tried the Harpia himself. He can see the problem I have with focus hunting at full zoom and we both agreed that when you are panning at 70x zoom and trying to focus at the same time on a bird which is miles away. It's just too much to expect to be able to get a sharp image.
I would be interested to hear from any Kowa/ Swaro users who are able to pan and focus at full zoom at the same time though. My verdict is that the 70x zoom will be brilliant for any bird which is reasonably still and not too far away but not so much for things in flight which are a long way off.
I guess that I'm going to need to use the scope as much as possible in lots of differing scenarios in order to get to grips with the strange dual focusing operation. That, or trade it in for a Kowa or a Swarovski ATX if it turns out that these can do what my Harpia can't?
Thanks to everyone who has replied to my original query, you have all been very helpful.
Ian Byrnes
Well-known member
Hello David
I've followed your thread with interest to see what the outcome would be with your Harpia but do understand your worries. I had used a very good Opticron with fixed focus lenses for some time as I couldn't get on with a zoom then bought a Zeiss Diascope 85 T*FL last year with a 20-75 zoom. I appreciate that the Harpia works
with a 3 stage wide angle zoom which provides a constant field of view over its entire magnification. Mine is a conventional zoom with a narrowing FOV but the dual-speed focusing mechanism with one knob is similar. Because of my experience with the fixed lensed Opticron I was blown away with the image quality and fast focusing ability of the Diascope although the FOV at 75 although sharp is much reduced and to get that sharp image needs practice to fine tune. Like you I was using it mainly in hides so didn't get interference from sun glare but since lockdown I've been looking out across fields from my garden and in the warm weather have experienced distortion from atmospheric conditions - (on an amusing aside though, I could see in the hills 3 miles away people who were abusing lockdown and not socially distancing !).
I've had a look in the past through Swarovskis and Kowas and felt that the image quality at high magnification was similar to mine but what has made the experience and viewing a whole load better is to attach my smartphone to the scope and use the phones large display as a your eyepiece. I even changed from an IPhone to Samsung to get better pixel quality. The sun glare can play a part here but in the right light I can zoom to 75 and use the phones focus to expand the image even further with full clarity. Since we've come out of lockdown my scope & phone have gone every where with me and using this method along with my binoculars to spot....have had a really enjoyable view at great distance. I am now photographing everything with a bluetooth shutter control while scanning.
I've also changed to a carbon fibre tripod from aluminium and fine tuned my fluid head with a longer qr plate to stabilize the weight of the scope, phone and attachments. I suppose it's like photographers...if the equipment and set up is right, then the results will be better
I think you'll find in the end that once you get used to it, the Harpia is a superb bit of kit.....although I've not tried one.....but would really like to. I assume from your address that you live close to Flamborough Head. The variety of vistas you can experience must be amazing. I'm envious.
Any way .....good luck. Let us all know when your socks are blown off !!!
I've followed your thread with interest to see what the outcome would be with your Harpia but do understand your worries. I had used a very good Opticron with fixed focus lenses for some time as I couldn't get on with a zoom then bought a Zeiss Diascope 85 T*FL last year with a 20-75 zoom. I appreciate that the Harpia works
with a 3 stage wide angle zoom which provides a constant field of view over its entire magnification. Mine is a conventional zoom with a narrowing FOV but the dual-speed focusing mechanism with one knob is similar. Because of my experience with the fixed lensed Opticron I was blown away with the image quality and fast focusing ability of the Diascope although the FOV at 75 although sharp is much reduced and to get that sharp image needs practice to fine tune. Like you I was using it mainly in hides so didn't get interference from sun glare but since lockdown I've been looking out across fields from my garden and in the warm weather have experienced distortion from atmospheric conditions - (on an amusing aside though, I could see in the hills 3 miles away people who were abusing lockdown and not socially distancing !).
I've had a look in the past through Swarovskis and Kowas and felt that the image quality at high magnification was similar to mine but what has made the experience and viewing a whole load better is to attach my smartphone to the scope and use the phones large display as a your eyepiece. I even changed from an IPhone to Samsung to get better pixel quality. The sun glare can play a part here but in the right light I can zoom to 75 and use the phones focus to expand the image even further with full clarity. Since we've come out of lockdown my scope & phone have gone every where with me and using this method along with my binoculars to spot....have had a really enjoyable view at great distance. I am now photographing everything with a bluetooth shutter control while scanning.
I've also changed to a carbon fibre tripod from aluminium and fine tuned my fluid head with a longer qr plate to stabilize the weight of the scope, phone and attachments. I suppose it's like photographers...if the equipment and set up is right, then the results will be better
I think you'll find in the end that once you get used to it, the Harpia is a superb bit of kit.....although I've not tried one.....but would really like to. I assume from your address that you live close to Flamborough Head. The variety of vistas you can experience must be amazing. I'm envious.
Any way .....good luck. Let us all know when your socks are blown off !!!
Thanks Ian, a very interesting read. I was saying yesterday that I need to look for a digiscoping adapter for my iPhone 5s. Zeiss do one for the Harpia but it's for the larger iPhones.
I do live in Flamborough so yes, I'm very lucky that I have some great birding right on my doorstep.
Thanks again.
I do live in Flamborough so yes, I'm very lucky that I have some great birding right on my doorstep.
Thanks again.
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Ian Byrnes
Well-known member
Hello David
Send me a PM with your address and I'll send you my old Iphone 5s adapter (It's of no use to me now) but you'll have to get the dedicated collar from PhoneSkope for your Harpia eyepiece.
(By the way I have examples of my ramblings on the gallery....on British Birds ).
Regards
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Hi Ian,
That's very kind of you and thanks very much. I'll PM you my details and will look for the correct adapter to match the case with.
Edit: Ian, have just seen that your profile doesn't allow PMs so you might need to enable that part. I've sent my details via email instead.
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Ian Byrnes
Well-known member
Try that....cant understand why its saying that...looks ok to me.
No, still can't .. I just get a message saying that you've chosen not to receive PMs. Did you get the email OK?
PS. Let me know how much the postage is and I'll be happy to cover the cost.
Ian Byrnes
Well-known member
Yes got it.....sorted. .....don't worry about postage
Cheers Ian. I'll look forward to testing it out. I've ordered an adapter ring now so should be good to go very shortly.
Thanks very much for your help.
DRodrigues
Well-known member
Did you usually used the 25-75x zoom ep on your ED82?
Hi David,
I use a 30x wide angle eyepiece 95% of the time. I have a 25/75 zoom but prefer the field of view and brightness from the 30x. When zooming in with the 25/75 the field of view shrinks and darkens quite a bit. Most of my birding was moorland stuff before moving to the coast and the extra field of view was very useful when scanning around for distant birds.
Cheers.
DRodrigues
Well-known member
Ok, that explains your feeling at 70x...
As you increase magnification the depth of field decrease proportionally. If you add very big distances, the limitations increase since atmospheric conditions become even more limiting.
I use frequently >120x to read nasal saddles codes at >220m until +350m - I even read flamingo colour rings at 500m but only on optimal atmospheric conditions - and I don't expect to get the same image quality as at 100m...
At 70x what you see at 300m is less, and specially with less image quality, than what you see at 35x at 150m...
During the summer, during the hotter hours, usually there is no gain on using high mags - that's the reason why I do my cr-birding during the early hours or late on the day!
There are no miracles but for birding at great distances you would gain using a X95 with the 1,7x extender - just don't expect the same image quality as at 30x at 100m...3
And yes, high mags at close distances, specially using binoviewers or >80º AFOV single eps, is another dimension or birding!...:king:
High mags with 70º AFOV, as with the Harpia or Swaro X95 is close but not the same...3
Thanks David.
Yes, my original question to Zeiss was regarding the 'depth of field' at 70x zoom but I never actually found out what it was.
Having given the matter some thought and also now understanding how the Harpia is working internally, I can now use the focus much better. Still struggle at 70x at long distance but as you say, this is an expected limitation when you add together the movement of me panning, plus a bird in flight which is miles away and then also take into account atmospheric conditions. We were seawatching at around 7pm and could still see the 'shimmering' of the heat haze in the railings of a very distant ship.
One thing which I think set my brain off on the wrong track right from the very start was the way some people choose to describe the Harpia focusing. I read more than once that .. 'Turning the focus ring quickly, brings in the fast focus' .. which had me thinking exactly that, as though there is a sort of a 'centrifugal clutch' which kicks in when I turn the ring quickly and brings in the faster focus. With that in mind, I was turning the focus ring quickly in one direction and then as the focus started to sharpen I was continuing in the same direction but turning the ring more slowly thinking that I was now getting the fine focus. In reality this is still moving the fast focus part of the assembly but at a slower speed. I now realise (thanks to OhWeh) that the trick is to turn the ring in one direction and then as the focus sharpens, go a bit further and then reverse the direction you're turning and this gives you the fine focus part. I see now (and also feel) that the focus turning operation has short segment within the turning circle where the focus ring turns more freely and this is the fine focus part. It's as though the focus ring which is being turned has a small peg sticking out internally which travels in a short, 'empty' recess in the internal focusing gearing and as you're turning the ring, when the peg reaches either end of this recess and you continue to turn in the same direction, it then begins to push the fast focus part of the assembly around. It doesn't matter how quickly you are turning the focus ring, the fast focus comes in at either end of the small recess if you carry on turning in the same direction, the actual 'initiation' of the fast focus has nothing to do with how quickly the focus ring is turning and is simply a positional thing.
I hope that this makes sense and my description isn't too confusing.
Now that I have got my head around how the focus actually works, using the scope is much easier!
Yes, my original question to Zeiss was regarding the 'depth of field' at 70x zoom but I never actually found out what it was.
Having given the matter some thought and also now understanding how the Harpia is working internally, I can now use the focus much better. Still struggle at 70x at long distance but as you say, this is an expected limitation when you add together the movement of me panning, plus a bird in flight which is miles away and then also take into account atmospheric conditions. We were seawatching at around 7pm and could still see the 'shimmering' of the heat haze in the railings of a very distant ship.
One thing which I think set my brain off on the wrong track right from the very start was the way some people choose to describe the Harpia focusing. I read more than once that .. 'Turning the focus ring quickly, brings in the fast focus' .. which had me thinking exactly that, as though there is a sort of a 'centrifugal clutch' which kicks in when I turn the ring quickly and brings in the faster focus. With that in mind, I was turning the focus ring quickly in one direction and then as the focus started to sharpen I was continuing in the same direction but turning the ring more slowly thinking that I was now getting the fine focus. In reality this is still moving the fast focus part of the assembly but at a slower speed. I now realise (thanks to OhWeh) that the trick is to turn the ring in one direction and then as the focus sharpens, go a bit further and then reverse the direction you're turning and this gives you the fine focus part. I see now (and also feel) that the focus turning operation has short segment within the turning circle where the focus ring turns more freely and this is the fine focus part. It's as though the focus ring which is being turned has a small peg sticking out internally which travels in a short, 'empty' recess in the internal focusing gearing and as you're turning the ring, when the peg reaches either end of this recess and you continue to turn in the same direction, it then begins to push the fast focus part of the assembly around. It doesn't matter how quickly you are turning the focus ring, the fast focus comes in at either end of the small recess if you carry on turning in the same direction, the actual 'initiation' of the fast focus has nothing to do with how quickly the focus ring is turning and is simply a positional thing.
I hope that this makes sense and my description isn't too confusing.
Now that I have got my head around how the focus actually works, using the scope is much easier!
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