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Harpia 95 vs. X95 - my biased contact (2 Viewers)

Hauksen

Forum member
Hi David,

Finally did it http://www.pt-ducks.com/cr-telescopes.htm#Swarovski_X95_vs_Zeiss_Harpia95 - my thoughts about the Harpia with some speculation...3:)

Thanks a lot, very interesting insights not only regarding the technology, but also regarding the difficulties of re-sighting banded birds!

You mentioned that you'd have preferred a straight version of the Harpia ... I presume that's due to the difficulties of (quick) target acquisition at the very high magnifications you're operating at?

Regards,

Henning
 

DRodrigues

Well-known member
Hi Henning,

I'm glad you enjoyed.
No, besides the natural felling that is easier to find a bird with a straight scope, straight scopes are more practical for my birding because:
1 - I spend many hours in hides with high windows so with an angled scope I would had to stay up and not seated, and even in some hides, an angled scope had to be turned 90º for one side and I'm 178cm tall, so not too short...;
2- I do down-hill birding often also - one wetland have a birding point in a cliff, several tens of meters up from the surface – with an angled scope the neck would suffer. Angled scopes are better to look up, like raptors soaring.

After posting this thread I contacted Baader to ask if they had plans to do an adapter for using 1.25” astro eps with the Harpia. They told me that until now no one asked for such adapter… For those that don’t know, Baader produce such adapter for the Diascope that is much better and less expensive than the one produced by Zeiss. So those owners that are interested in increasing or reducing the magnifications of their Harpia, increasing or not AFOVs, should send an e-mail to Baader to ask for it – the more requests arrive to them,the more probable they will release it and sooner …
 

Hauksen

Forum member
Hi David,

Hi Henning,
No, besides the natural felling that is easier to find a bird with a straight scope, straight scopes are more practical for my birding because:

Ah, thanks for the detailed explanation - makes perfect sense!

(I did experiment with aiming devices on spotting scopes a bit, so I wondered whether they might be beneficial for your application as well.)

Regards,

Henning
 

yves0071

Well-known member
Hi David,
In comparison, have you tried to mount several extenders (Kowa can offer a 153 mag with 2 units. I do not know if it is possible to add several 1.7 extenders on ATX models). if yes, how is image quality in comparison to your systems you described?
Regards
Yves
 

DRodrigues

Well-known member
Hi David,
In comparison, have you tried to mount several extenders (Kowa can offer a 153 mag with 2 units. I do not know if it is possible to add several 1.7 extenders on ATX models). if yes, how is image quality in comparison to your systems you described?
Regards
Yves

Bonjour Yves,
It's possible to add sever extenders on the Swaro X but I never tried because I know it wouldn't be useful for my CR-birding use: - my X95 with the 1.7x extender result on a 51-122x zoom http://www.pt-ducks.com/cr-telescopes.htm#Test_of_my_present_preferred_cr-telescopes
If I would use a second extender, it would result on 87-208x that is too high for CR-birding. Probably interesting to look at the moon or bright planets...
As I mention at the upper link, the X95 has very high definition, extender included, and at the same magnifications has higher practical resolutions than my combos - producers design their scope systems pieces to work together - but my combos can reach higher mags, FOVs and AFOVs, colour fidelity, ...
The Harpia 95 potential possibility of receiving a binoviewer and maintaining the zooming capacity made me thinking of my bino-combos http://www.pt-ducks.com/cr-telescopes.htm#CR-binoviewing and yesterday I tested it with a pair of XW20 (70º) and at minimum magnification it has >28% of the X95*1,7extender and can go higher mags than the maximum mag of the X95*1,7extender!... However, as the plan is to best the BTX95, I already have solutions that allow much larger FOV of the BTX but still lower AFOV - I'm trying to reach a solution with larger FOV and AFOV that already managed but still need some special pieces...o:D
Will see if Zeiss will make my search more difficult as Swaro did with the STX95, the 1.7 extender and the BTX...3:)
 

gcole

Well-known member
David , have you ever experimented with the Nikon EDG 65 or 85 spotting scopes to achieve higher magnifications using other eyepieces/adapters other than EDG’s FEP line of its fixed or zoom eyepieces ?
 
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DRodrigues

Well-known member
David , have you ever experimented with the Nikon EDG 65 or 85 spotting scopes to achieve higher magnifications using other eyepieces/adapters other than EDG’s FEP line of its fixed or zoom eyepieces ?
No, even never seen one EDG...
If Nikon will release a >95mm straight version, I might...o:D
 

DRodrigues

Well-known member
A equivalent 11.25x zoom???

Just remembered if the 3.75x zoom of the Diascope fits and reach focus on the Harpia, resulting in a 11.25x zoom... o:D
Can any Harpia owner test it?
If it works, the resulting magnifications would be 7-76 or 78x ...:eek!:
It could be advantageous for those doing digiscopy since full aperture could be used from 12x... At 7x there is probably some vignetting.
With the Diascope zoom at the higher mag position the AFOVs are only a bit smaller (68º) than the Harpia ep and the zoom range from 25-26 to 76-78x - saw 2 different values for the focal length of the Diascopes zoom at higher mag...
 

kabsetz

Well-known member
David,

This is an interesting idea. FOV at low magnifications would be limited by the Harpia optical system, and I don't recall if we know anything about its maximum field with anything but the designated Zeiss eyepiece. So it is possible that the maximum field width would be the same as it is with the 23x mag with the current eyepiece, or only a bit wider.

The zoom range would be wild, however.

On another note, if the Harpia you tried against your ATX 95 was sharper than your Swaro, I believe it must mean that your sample of the ATX 95 is a very good but not perfect sample. I have seen several samples of the ATX which are so good that no 93 mm scope could really show a sharper image in a side-by-side.

Kimmo
 

DRodrigues

Well-known member
Kimmo,

The Chinese page, mentioned on my page, estimated the field stop on 20mm. The Diascope zoom should have a bit more than 21mm field stop, so that's the reason I mentioned that should be a slight vignetting a 7x, that should disappear at >7.5x! The TFOV should be about the double than the present Harpia ep!

After seeing that the Harpia was sharper than my STX 95, I also thought that my scope might be not a perfect sample (it also felt a couple on times from the back seat of my car...), but might be that the Harpia was a perfect one and the Zeiss philosophy of maximizing the sharpness at the centre of the field (and loosing sharpness on the edges...) showed up - on astro-refractors the triplets are usually assumed better for visual use than the flatfield ones, with 4 or more lenses.
However, I have to test my X95 side by side with another X95 sample to verify if there is any problem with my sample...
 

BoldenEagle

Well-known member
However, I have to test my X95 side by side with another X95 sample to verify if there is any problem with my sample...

Hi David,

have you test your ATX sample by comparing it to another one? Or have you done star test with your sample?

If so, what were your findings?

Regards, Juhani
 

DRodrigues

Well-known member
It seems that no one tried to get an adapter to use astro eyepieces with the Harpia neither tried to get a Binoviewer to work with it.
As for some of you adapters and other stuff can be confusing, I asked an European binoviewer adapting specialist if he could adapt a binoviewer to the Harpia. He told me that can could try but needed an Harpia scope to work with it.
So, Zeiss fans willing to pay to have an adapter to use astro eyepieces and that can "survive" without the Harpia during some weeks can contact Denis Levatic and asking for that.
Those that would be interested on using a binoviewer on the Harpia can ask him also and eventually you could use a Zeiss binoviewer and Zeiss eyepieces - see https://www.cloudynights.com/galler...s-apochromatic-sharpest-binoviewer-available/. Would only eventually need to pay also for a 2.6x Baader OCS in order Denis can verify if would be possible to reach focus with all combo.
Denis "supercharged" my Baader MK V binoviewer and did a great job!
 

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