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HBW to cease (1 Viewer)

Andy Adcock

Fractious Member of ill repute
England
This now appears with each search on the site.

HBW Alive will end its services on 11 May 2020 and the website will be closed definitively. Please visit the Cornell Lab of Ornithology’s Birds of the World website, where the HBW Alive content has been incorporated. Thank you!

We knew it was coming.
 

Mcdo0gal

Bird is the word.
How does the Cornell pricing compare? Took a look at the alive site but they have already taken down the pricing.

I think Birdsoftheworld.org is 50 usd a year.
 

Andy Adcock

Fractious Member of ill repute
England
How does the Cornell pricing compare? Took a look at the alive site but they have already taken down the pricing.

I think Birdsoftheworld.org is 50 usd a year.

I can only half answer the question, under HBW, a very useful but incomplete page was free. The free page includes range, taxonomy notes and alternative names plus, very usefully, any potentail splits which you can see an example of below.

https://www.hbw.com/species/white-browed-shrike-babbler-pteruthius-aeralatus

A fter having had a quick look at the site , this free part is not offered by Cornell as far as I can see,
 
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Muppit17

Well-known member
I

A fter having had a quick look at the site , this free part is not offered by Cornell as far as I can see,

There are parts offered for free as part of eBird and Merlin, the link takes you to the same species - called Blythe's Shrike Babbler under Clements;
https://ebird.org/species/blyshb1
So range, photos of each plumage, sound and video are available. You can pull up a seasonal sightings barchart for a target location as well.

But as you say much is not available, as this is the access page for the same species in birds of the world

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/blyshb1/cur/introduction

Some links are active, but many are not - haven't worked through them yet.
 

Andy Adcock

Fractious Member of ill repute
England
There are parts offered for free as part of eBird and Merlin, the link takes you to the same species - called Blythe's Shrike Babbler under Clements;
https://ebird.org/species/blyshb1
So range, photos of each plumage, sound and video are available. You can pull up a seasonal sightings barchart for a target location as well.

But as you say much is not available, as this is the access page for the same species in birds of the world

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/blyshb1/cur/introduction

Some links are active, but many are not - haven't worked through them yet.

Apart from the fact that it was free, it's simple layout ia / was a joy!
 

ZanderII

Well-known member
This now appears with each search on the site.

HBW Alive will end its services on 11 May 2020 and the website will be closed definitively. Please visit the Cornell Lab of Ornithology’s Birds of the World website, where the HBW Alive content has been incorporated. Thank you!

All BOTW content is free to view today until 3pm EDT.

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/home

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/canwar/cur/introduction

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/sylvii1/cur/introduction
 

Andy Adcock

Fractious Member of ill repute
England

Thanks for this,
I looked at a species where there are a lot of races, Collared Kingfisher and my first observation is that it needs simplifying with a very quick overview of races, potential new names if a split is mooted and distribution which is how HBW do it................I'd do away with a lot of the photos, it just makes quick viewing, more complicated than it needs to be.

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/colkin1/cur/introduction

Compare HBW's layout......

https://www.hbw.com/species/collared-kingfisher-todiramphus-chloris

I know that the Cornell site is intended as a complete reference but I do hope they offer a free, basic page for those who don't choose to subscribe. I already feel short changed, having purchased c£2K of books from HBW, that we weren' offered a free sub on this basis alone.
 
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ZanderII

Well-known member
Thanks for this,
I looked at a species where there are a lot of races, Collared Kingfisher and my first observation is that it need simplifying with a very quick overview of races, potential new names if a split is mooted and distribution which is how HBW do it................I'd do away with a lot of the photos, it just makes quick viewing, more complicated than it needs to be.

https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/colkin1/cur/introduction

Compare HBW's layout......

https://www.hbw.com/species/collared-kingfisher-todiramphus-chloris

I know that the Cornell site is intended as a complete reference but I do hope they offer a free, basic page for those who don't choose to subscribe. I already feel short changed, having purchased c£2K of books from HBW, that we weren' offered a free sub on this basis alone.

All the content has only just been migrated across and there are a team of people working on producing new content and expanding so expect lots of changes

all that information on systematics is reproduced here: https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/colkin1/cur/introduction#sys with the field identifiable groupings
 

Andy Adcock

Fractious Member of ill repute
England
All the content has only just been migrated across and there are a team of people working on producing new content and expanding so expect lots of changes

all that information on systematics is reproduced here: https://birdsoftheworld.org/bow/species/colkin1/cur/introduction#sys with the field identifiable groupings

I think that ultimately, we have two groups of people. There are those like me who have a lot of books which of course go out of date which means that I consult HBW (or did) for the latest ideas on taxonomy. Then there are those who may not have so much 'hard' reference material and want everyhting in one place online.

To satisfy the latter, the website has to be expansive but for those like me, I want a concise outline of the latest taxonomy which is what HBW provides on the free page.

It goes without saying that those who want to pay will call the shots, rightly so but as I saw opined somewhere recently, why is it only the realm of ornithology where such a price is put on what was in the main, freely gathered information and which in many cases, has already been paid for, sometimes many fold.

We're effctively paying to view the results of research which has already been funded and paid for. Continuing research, likewise, is largely funded by universities, some by private individuals.

We all, greatly appreciate the work that has been done largely as a labour of love by the guys at the IOC and Scythebill et al but I think that a good percentage of us, resent a giant such as Cornell is, monopolising the market and cashing in like this.
 
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ZanderII

Well-known member
I think that ultimately, we have two groups of people. There are those like me who have a lot of books which of course go out of date which means that I consult HBW (or did) for the latest ideas on taxonomy. Then there are those who may not have so much 'hard' reference material and want everyhting in one place online.

Some information is available and non-pay-walled through BOTW


It goes without saying that those who want to pay will call the shots, rightly so but as I saw opined somewhere recently, why is it only the realm of ornithology where such a price is put on what was in the main, freely gathered information and which in many cases, has already been paid for, sometimes many fold.

We're effctively paying to view the results of research which has already been funded and paid for. Continuing research, likewise, is largely funded by universities, some by private individuals.

And that research still has to be compiled, just use Google Scholar to find the original material if necessary.

We all, greatly appreciate the work that has been done largely as a labour of love by the guys at the IOC and Scythebill et al but I think that a good percentage of us, resent a giant such as Cornell is, monopolising the market and cashing in like this.

Cashing in? Given that Lynx couldn't afford HBW anymore then surely this is a good result. Cornell isn't a monster, it is a university and one small part of that university is the Lab of Ornithology. This isn't Google you are talking about and so many Lab products are totally free, https://www.birds.cornell.edu/home/about/programs/ like Merlin, eBird, ML, K12, Birdcast, Raven etc
 

temmie

Well-known member
It's a work in progress.
You can see that in the next coming years, a lot of the ssp. will get drawings, so it make sense, after publishing all the books, to work further on this project online and with a pay wall. In this way they can fund upcoming field guides, drawings, people working on the website,...

The better every species is described and known and all info is collected into one website, the easier it will be to publish field guides for certain countries or regions.

I just hope they will skip the Clements taxonomy or at least make it easy to switch between taxonomies.
 

Mysticete

Well-known member
United States
I think you are going to be seeing soon that IOC and Clements are going to have very similar taxonomies soon, especially since there has been a bit of behind the scenes changes at IOC.

ALSO, re: research being free: HBW was for the most part not a source of original research, just a condensed summary of it. Now, a lot of that research is locked behind a paywall, which I something I dislike as a researcher myself. If I am paying a journal to publish something, why is the journal then turning around and charging people to use it? Especially when I am using grant money, which probably came from public funds, to pay for it.

Also I can't help but feel birders have it super easy, with multiple free world checklists that are updated annually, as well as several other easy to access resources (like this website). I have been trying to track down changes in reptile or mammal taxonomy, for my Covid lockdown list revisions. Most of those checklists may only be updated once or twice a decade, and some are horribly arranged with no clear indication of changes. Going through and having to do a genus level search in google scholar for all North American herp taxa just to figure out what new species and taxonomic changes have appeared is incredibly time intensive, and its still easy to miss things.
 
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Andy Adcock

Fractious Member of ill repute
England
I think you are going to be seeing soon that IOC and Clements are going to have very similar taxonomies soon, especially since there has been a bit of behind the scenes changes at IOC.

ALSO, re: research being free: HBW was for the most part not a source of original research, just a condensed summary of it. Now, a lot of that research is locked behind a paywall, which I something I dislike as a researcher myself. If I am paying a journal to publish something, why is the journal then turning around and charging people to use it? Especially when I am using grant money, which probably came from public funds, to pay for it.

Also I can't help but feel birders have it super easy, with multiple free world checklists that are updated annually, as well as several other easy to access resources (like this website). I have been trying to track down changes in reptile or mammal taxonomy, for my Covid lockdown list revisions. Most of those checklists may only be updated once or twice a decade, and some are horribly arranged with no clear indication of changes. Going through and having to do a genus level search in google scholar for all North American herp taxa just to figure out what new species and taxonomic changes have appeared is incredibly time intensive, and its still easy to miss things.


Which is something I tried to state in my last post.

Re birders being lucky, I think it's simply a matter of it being a far more popular field than 'herping', mammals would come a distant second to birding I think?
 

RyanI

Well-known member
It may have changed now but I'm sure in the past you could get free access to Birds of the World depending on the number of eBird checklists you submitted that month. So if it is still in place it could be a win win, submit lots of data to eBird and you get a free resource.
 

Andy Adcock

Fractious Member of ill repute
England
It may have changed now but I'm sure in the past you could get free access to Birds of the World depending on the number of eBird checklists you submitted that month. So if it is still in place it could be a win win, submit lots of data to eBird and you get a free resource.

Hence the accusations of quantity over quality?
 

temmie

Well-known member
I would try to fork out the 50 (insert currency) / year. I think it is worth it, especially if you are serious about world birding and keeping track of your current list and future plans...
 

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