Help with bird IDs in Xi'an and Jinshanling Great Wall (1 Viewer)

[oxes]

hi all, need help with two species IDs. no pictures to offer on the first, unfortunately. i'm not much of an avian photographer, but i'll do my best with a detailed description:

Observed mid-afternoon at the Giant Wild Goose Pagoda in Xi'an on a clear, sunny day. May 11th 2018
small, drab, medium-brown (so, not so dark, not so light) bird less than 4-5in long, reminds strongly of a flycatcher or even a wren, large dark eyes, and big for say, a typical warbler. bill narrow, bird insect catching, tail moving up and down, tail darker than back and wings, wing tips dangled below line of tail, body light to cream coloured underneath, but no distinguishing markings that i could see like spots, stripes, wing markings, etc. very light eye ring, could even just be the eyelid itself. no bars on wings or markings on throat that I could see.

but the bobbing tail, wing tips hanging below the tail, lightness surrounding the eye, light coloured underside, and movement through the low growth/bushes/trees were the most distinguishing characteristics in the moment.

I think this first species is the Asian-Brown Flycatcher, second opinions? I am not very confident since I don't know Chinese birds well, and there may be similar species I haven't discovered online yet.

Second species I observed also mid-afternoon, at Jinshanling Great Wall, on a walk down a forested/brush-covered hillside. Clear sunny day, May 7th 2018. Birds were in a group of 4 and were feeding in some bushes just off the path, a very sunny spot with no canopy cover.
This one I have a photo of (not my photo, though). The website I found the photo on doesn't make an ID, but I think it's an Asian Rosy-Finch female. Second opinions?

 

[Jeff Hopkins]

First one does sound like Asian Brown.

Second one is a rosefinch. Asian Rosy Finch wouldn't be in Xian. Not sure which one it is, tho.

 

[Andy Adcock]

What about female Crimson-browed Finch for the second, doesn't look in range but I am looking at MacKinnon so there are no guarantees!?




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[xuky.summer]

The images of Second looks good for a female Sinai Rosefinch (Pale Rosefinch), which I think is far from Jinshanling Great Wall. Chinese Beautiful Rosefinch is in range.

 

[Werzik]

How about female Common Rosefinch?

 

[Andy Adcock]

The images of Second looks good for a female Sinai Rosefinch (Pale Rosefinch), which I think is far from Jinshanling Great Wall. Chinese Beautiful Rosefinch is in range.

I agree, plain back and unstreaked underparts that we can see anyway, looks good for Plain Rosefinch.


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[rockfowl]

Personally I would put it down as rosefinch sp. Using Menxiu Tong's images to illustrate 'this is what it looked like' when considering a rather complex species group with many looking very similar is just plain daft IMO.

As for the first, the description 'bobbing tail', "tail darker than back and wings, wing tips dangled below line of tail", and white tips hanging below the tail doesn't exactly fit Asian Brown, they don't tail flick, unlike Taiga for example.

 

[Andy Adcock]

Personally I would put it down as rosefinch sp. Using Menxiu Tong's images to illustrate this is what it looked like when considering a rather complex species group with many looking very similar is just plain daft IMO.

As for the first, the description 'bobbing tail', "tail darker than back and wings, wing tips dangled below line of tail", and white tips hanging below the tail doesn't exactly fit Asian Brown, they don't tail flick, unlike Taiga for example.

Sounds like a female Siberian Blue Robin to me?



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[Werzik]

I am siding with Mark here on Taiga Flycatcher. They usually wag their tail up and down while giving the "grrk" call.

 

[Larry Sweetland]

Welcome to Birdforum Oxes. I reckon we can only guess, and could be wildly wrong from these descriptions I'm afraid. I think in both cases it sounds like birds with a few similar possible options, so whatever they are, trying to identify them in hindsight from internet photos could easily lead to a misidentification.

 

[oxes]

wow, thanks all for your thoughtful replies. i do realize it's difficult to ID post hoc like this, from memory (and in your case my descriptions). pictures are worth much more but i don't have the equipment, especially while on vacation.

was hoping for an easy ID on the finch given the very drab appearance (there were no wing bars, as with many images of female common rosefinches i can find online... however, some of the birds in the images do look quite drab...) and location, but it seems there are many subspecies that look quite similar in the area. i am not confident enough to make a species-level ID for this one even after the input above. i remember the distinctive (to my N. american eyes, anyway) head and bill profile of these birds, but it seems from my image searching online that many rosefinches share a similar look wrt head shape.

however, thank you to rockfowl and werzik for suggesting taiga flycatcher. i watched a few videos of this species online and that is indeed the bird i saw. very distinctive tail bobbing!

 

[Andy Adcock]

If anyone is in Beijing with a non birding partner, this walk from Jinshanling to Simatai is excellent, c12km from memory and spectacular views of the wall all the way along the walk.

I had Brown Dipper below the suspension bridge at the end of the walk as well as Chinese White-browed Warbler (or whatever they call it now) on the walk.



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