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Here are the new Victorys: Victory HT (1 Viewer)

Mac308

Well-known member
I was finally able to handle a pair of 10x42 HT's... the view was stunning, as expected.

The only criticism I have, apart from the objective cover, is the black paint used on the exposed metal portion of the bridge (where the blue Zeiss logo is)... it looked incredibly cheap. Unbelievable really that a bin at this level would have such a cheap looking finish on this part. I would expect a much higher quality finish on a bin this expensive. Small nitpick for sure...
 

james holdsworth

Consulting Biologist
I was finally able to handle a pair of 10x42 HT's... the view was stunning, as expected.

The only criticism I have, apart from the objective cover, is the black paint used on the exposed metal portion of the bridge (where the blue Zeiss logo is)... it looked incredibly cheap. Unbelievable really that a bin at this level would have such a cheap looking finish on this part. I would expect a much higher quality finish on a bin this expensive. Small nitpick for sure...


Pretty sure this paint is ''baked'', which gives the slight crinkle appearance. I'm sure it is designed for durability - time will tell if it resists chipping.
 

ronh

Well-known member
Henry,

Thanks for cooking up that HT/FL cutaway picture.

Is is just me, or don't those focusing lenses look like cemented doublets? There seems to be a line running around the edge of both.

Ron
 

Troubador

Moderator
Staff member
Supporter
Pretty sure this paint is ''baked'', which gives the slight crinkle appearance. I'm sure it is designed for durability - time will tell if it resists chipping.

I think you are right James. Thicker paint tends to not only scratch but gouge. Thin and hard is more durable.

Lee
 

henry link

Well-known member
Ron,

Hard to say for sure, but I don't think they're doublets. The rendering of the HT is so full of faux reflections on the lens edges that it's pretty hard to identify any cementings, if they're rendered at all. The FL rendering is much clearer since it simulates the lens elements sawn in half with glass colored blue and the cementings following the curves of the lens surfaces. The focuser in the FL rendering looks like a singlet for sure to me.

I tried to enhance the readability of the HT lens edges in the image below. There appears to be a dark line that cuts through the reflections on HT objective doublet and the eyepiece doublets at about the right places to correspond to the FL cementings. I don't see anything like that on the focusing lens.

Besides, I think both the HT and FL focusers are too thin to be doublets. See the cutaway of a 56mm FL below which does have a cemented doublet focusing lens.

Henry
 

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james holdsworth

Consulting Biologist
Personally, I would worry more about the VICTORY HT printed on the front of the ocular - it appears to be just screen painted on the metal.

I would much prefer what Leica does, engraved and in smaller, more elegant type. The HT print doesn't belong on a $2000.00 bino.
 

elkcub

Silicon Valley, California
United States
Henry/Ron,

Is the focusing lens + or - ?

Do you know of an authoritative book, or other source, that provides a geometric explanation of how the internal focusing lens works and its effect on magnification at different working distances?

This is a long standing void for me. |:||

Thanks,
Ed
 

brocknroller

A professed porromaniac
United States
Henry/Ron,

Is the focusing lens + or - ?

Do you know of an authoritative book, or other source, that provides a geometric explanation of how the internal focusing lens works and its effect on magnification at different working distances?

This is a long standing void for me. |:||

Thanks,
Ed

It's effect on chromatic aberration has been a long standing black hole for me. :h?:

<B>
 

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
One for the mavens .....

Would a doublet (as oppossed to a singlet) focusing lens possibly give advantages?:-
1. with reduced CA when employing an ED lens in the doublet?
2. with reduced prism size required due to a higher power doublet?

Are there other reasons to use them?



Chosun :gh:
 

ronh

Well-known member
Ed,
I don't know of a special treatment of the focusing lens, but I am certainly not into it enough to think that one doesn't exit. The focusing lens can be either positive or negative, and common binoculars use both. I hope you won't mind some random thoughts.

I get a lot of mileage out of a couple of simple page-1 type forumlas which I'm sure you are familiar with. Where f is focal length and o and i are object and image distances,
there is the "lens equation",
1/f = 1/o + 1/i
and one for linear magnification of a lens (image height/object height),
m=f/(f-o)
Then there's also the fact that combined power (inverse focal length) of stacked lenses is the sum of the individual powers.

Although these are strictly correct only for "thin" lenses, which the modern binocular certainly isn't, conceptually they are useful for figuring out how things generally work, with a little boldness, which is to say, no worries if it's not quite right!

By the third relation, the power of the objective is not changed by the motion of the focusing lens. Therefore, what is being changed is the effective location of the origin of focusing. Moving the focusing lens is equivalent to moving the entire objective back and forth. For various object distances, the image can be made to fall at the field stop of the eyepiece.

The variation in magnification then can be seen to result purely from the variation in the object distance, as described by the second equation.

The next step I think would be gravely major: get a copy of ZEMAX, get the precise optical layout, and go to town on a genuine ray trace.

To qualify my wisdom, I must admit to having taken optics as a sophomore in 1969, but had usually drank so much beer the night before that I was kind of in a daze during most of the classes. I actually absorbed the above information, Snell's law of refraction at a boundary, and the basic bit about thin film refraction and reflection (how coatings work) but buddy that's "IT". Just enough to make me a prime victim for consumer optics!

Ron
 
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henry link

Well-known member
Ed,

Ron has done a better job answering your questions than I ever could, so I’ll just add that all the current alpha binoculars use negative focusers (the old EL and SLC were positive). I’ve never run into any information at all on the subject of focusing lenses. They’re probably just too specialized to be included in works on basic telescope optics. If you find anything, please pass it along.

Chosun,

1) Doublet focusing lenses, sometimes including an ED element, appear to be the norm for more critical optics than binoculars, like spotting scopes. I assume the need for better suppression of the longidunal CA generated by the focuser is the reason. Barlows appear to have similar requirements for critical use and they can be anything from achromatic doublets to multi-element APOs.

2) A focuser with higher negative power would slow the convergence of the objective’s light cone, so the prisms would have to be larger or placed farther back.

As for the doublet in the 56mm FL, I suspect it’s necessary just to maintain roughly the same level of corrections for the faster 56mm objective that a singlet achieves in the smaller models. I certainly don’t see any better correction of the full aperture longitudinal CA in the 8x56 FL compared to the 8x42 FL, if anything it’s a bit worse.

Henry
 

henry link

Well-known member
Henry

I tried the FL 8x56 at the Bird Fair for the first time. It was during a dull part of the day and the view was magnificent.
No wonder you love it.

Lee

Lee,

Yep, I haven't been lured away by anything else I've seen so far. It's going to take something in the 8x50/56 class to turn my head and there just aren't many of those. I had imagined the most likely future candidates would be an 8x50/56 Zeiss HT or maybe the same size Leica with a Perger Porro prism. Now Swarovski quite unexpectedly comes along with an AK prism 8x56 that looks very interesting on paper.

Henry
 

ronh

Well-known member
Golly Henry thanks for not shredding me!

I am guessing that this kind of "internal focusing" was first used in cameras around the turn of the century when it started to replace the bellows type focusing method. If the drum was ever beat about it, it was probably then, and there might be a rigorous treatment in an old patent document.

Ron
 

SzimiStyle

The Shorebird Addict
I have now idea how to search within the thread so here is my question. Is the rolling ball effect as strong as on the FLs? I am close to buy one of the HTs.

Your comment is much appreciated.
 

james holdsworth

Consulting Biologist
I have now idea how to search within the thread so here is my question. Is the rolling ball effect as strong as on the FLs? I am close to buy one of the HTs.

Your comment is much appreciated.


There is zero rolling ball with the HT, and none with the FL's as well. Maybe you are referring to pincushion distortion - the bending of straight lines away from the centre of view?

If so, I find PC to be a bit less on the HT than the FL, but it not something you will notice unless you bird alot in cities and other places with straight edges.
 

SzimiStyle

The Shorebird Addict
I think the two things is quite the same. I call it 'rolling ball' effect when you are panning a scene and the image is obviously having a convex effect. One of great innovation of the SwsroVision is the perfect field flattening.

That kind of distortion was quite strong in FLs and I wonder if there is an improvement on the HTs.
 

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
Szimi, your referring to the "rolling bowl" phenomena, which like all such phenomenas only pops into existence with the combination of users optics /processing + instrument.

James is one of the few who has experience with both the FL, and the HT. He is saying that in his experience, the HT is less prone to the phenomena. Others have reported the same - the HT is better in this regard.

If you want to search this thread, click on down arrow next to "Search Thread" on the top rhs of this page - then click "Advanced Search" and go from there.



Chosun :gh:
 

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