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Message: <blockquote data-quote="HH75" data-source="post: 3150941" data-attributes="member: 61">Some northern argentatus are as dark as this, perhaps even darker, and I know I've often picked out presumed 'northern argentatus' from local argenteus on this basis initially and then confirmed that by looking at the primary pattern etc. Besides, this bird seems a tone paler than the nearby YLGU in the second image.'Omissus' has long been associated, erroneously, with 'Herring Gulls with yellow legs', when it actually refers to Herring Gulls breeding in the Baltic region, some of which have yellow legs, some of which don't, and which resemble Caspian Gull in some respects. It has also been queried as to whether this form, if it ever was a valid taxon, has now been bred out following input of (more typical) argentatus genes. That said, Herring Gulls in the Baltic region and also in Scandinavia (less commonly) can and do show yellow legs.There's only a small black mark on P5, certainly not the complete thick black band that I'd expect on an adult or near adult Yellow-legged Gull. There also is more or less a full white tip to P10 (though this can be shown more commonly by Yellow-legged Gulls in the eastern Med than western Europe), and relatively limited black on the wingtip on the underwing.Argentatus are Herring Gulls, so I don't know what you are referring to here? Besides, there's clinal variation and individual variation within Herring Gull.I would argue that the bill, with the red gonydeal spot not bleeding on to the upper mandible, would also arguably favour Herring more than YLGU here. I certainly wouldn't be so fast as to exclude a Herring Gull here, from somewhere within the 'greater argentatus' (i.e. not just the extreme northern birds). Indeed, I'd argue that it's much more likely to be a Herring Gull than a Yellow-legged Gull that would have to be odd in a number of respects.</blockquote>

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