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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mikfoz" data-source="post: 1418126" data-attributes="member: 72221">So rather than educating your son about why his actions are inconsiderate to others or making choices to not take him somewhere where he should sit still and quiet and he's bound to get bored you'd take on the people who were upset by his inconsiderate behaviour... I don't quite follow you.And, yes, I do have kids myself and I don't take them into hides for a period longer than their attention span and expect them to behave, nor do I expect others to tolerate them if they behave poorly or inconsiderately. How is this a Victorian attitude? If they're in boisterous mood we go for a walk in the woods instead and look for wildlife that's not going to be scared off, like frogs or butterflies, or just sack it and move on elsewhere and have a game of football or something. What I don't do is expect everyone else to tolerate them experimenting with the limits of their boisterousness in a way that annoys others and get angry with others for finding them irritating if they're being antisocial.If they behave well and so on, I reward them for it. Oddly enough, the one that's interested in wildlife by his own choice after short tryout visits is charming and considerate and like a mouse in a birding hide while the other frets and gets bored. Guess which one goes out birding for any length of time and gets a treat at the end...</blockquote>