Honey Buzzard? Poland (2 Viewers)

[JayFeatherPL]

North-eastern Poland, 12th of August, 13 pm, habitat: meadow next to a forest.

I think it is a Honey Buzzard, because of the long and extended neck, long and rounded tail, short "fingers". The bird seems to have six "fingers", which is a feature of the Lesser Spotted Eagle, but I think the "fingers" are too short for the spotted eagle (or any eagle!).

It may also be a goshawk, because the silhouettes of the Honey Buzzard and the Goshawk are extremely similar.
What do you think it is?

 

[THE_FERN]

Honey buzzard for me

 

[tconzemi]

And for me

 

[JayFeatherPL]

Thanks! And could you tell me from this photo why it's not a Goshawk (it also has short "fingers", long and extended neck, long and rounded tail)?

 

[tconzemi]

A Goshawk has longer tail, smaller hands and shorter wings

 

[JayFeatherPL]

A Goshawk has longer tail, smaller hands and shorter wings

Thank you! And by the way are there any other features which help to separate the Honey Buzzard from the Goshawk (of course when we don't see the colours)?

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

I don't have a HB feeling here, the tail is too short, the wings are too broad and breast too heavy. On the thumbnail, my gut feelings was LSE actually, before reading your suggestions. Goshawk is totally different : much shorter wings and much longer tail.

 

[JayFeatherPL]

I don't have a HB feeling here, the tail is too short, the wings are too broad and breast too heavy. On the thumbnail, my gut feelings was LSE actually, before reading your suggestions. Goshawk is totally different : much shorter wings and much longer tail.

Wouldn't LSE have much longer "fingers" and a shorter, thicker, less extending neck? Maybe it's a juvenile Honey Buzzard with a short tail?

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Wouldn't LSE have much longer "fingers" and a shorter, thicker, less extending neck? Maybe it's a juvenile Honey Buzzard with a short tail?

We see few details, but the plumage looks messy, so rather an adult ; at this moulting time of the year, feathers car be worn or broken, hence the short fingers ? Not sure we can argue much with such a picture though...

 

[JayFeatherPL]

I don't have a HB feeling here, the tail is too short, the wings are too broad and breast too heavy. On the thumbnail, my gut feelings was LSE actually, before reading your suggestions. Goshawk is totally different : much shorter wings and much longer tail.

Goshawk is totally different from a Spotted Eagle or from a Honey Buzzard? Actually I think the silhouettes of the Honey Buzzard and the Goshawk are very similar, they both have:
-Long, rounded tails,
-Short "fingers",
-Long and extended necks,
-Wings held flat during gliding,
-They fly just as fast.
Unfortunately The Collins Bird Guide doesn't tell how to separate these two...

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Well I got a second look, and I would see I'm pretty sure it is a LSE.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

I addd here a juvie HD and a goshawk, also juv. It ias too different to be compared in Collins...

 

[JayFeatherPL]

I addd here a juvie HD and a goshawk, also juv. It ias too different to be compared in Collins...

They're not too different...I've written above why the Honey Buzzard is similar to the Goshawk. I can re-write it, they both have:
-Long, rounded tails,
-Short "fingers",
-Long and extended necks,
-Wings held flat during gliding,
-They fly just as fast.
That's 5 features that Honey Buzzard share with the Goshawk! They're not "too different".

The wing lenght is sometimes hard to estimate in the field...

And actually in the photo of the goshawk you uploaded, the goshawk has much shorter tail than a HB or a LSE😅

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

They're not too different...I've written above why the Honey Buzzard is similar to the Goshawk. I can re-write it, they both have:
-Long, rounded tails,
-Short "fingers",
-Long and extended necks,
-Wings held flat during gliding,
-They fly just as fast.
That's 5 features that Honey Buzzard share with the Goshawk! They're not "too different".

The wing lenght is sometimes hard to estimate in the field...

And actually in the photo of the goshawk you uploaded, the goshawk has much shorter tail than a HB or a LSE😅

You are in "theory", I explain you from the field. No one confuse HB and goshawk, so Collins doesn't see the need to explain.

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

They're not too different...I've written above why the Honey Buzzard is similar to the Goshawk. I can re-write it, they both have:
-Long, rounded tails,
-Short "fingers",
-Long and extended necks,
-Wings held flat during gliding,
-They fly just as fast.
That's 5 features that Honey Buzzard share with the Goshawk! They're not "too different".

The wing lenght is sometimes hard to estimate in the field...

And actually in the photo of the goshawk you uploaded, the goshawk has much shorter tail than a HB or a LSE😅

"And actually in the photo of the goshawk you uploaded, the goshawk has much shorter tail than a HB or a LSE😅"

This is typically a difference between theory and field. In the field, it is usually almost impossible to see where the tail is really starting. So we compare the width of the wing with the length of the rest of the bird from the wing trailing edge to the tip of the tail. Here, in your bird (that is LSE) as in my French (from the only pair breeding there in 2015), the tail start at the trailing edge level, because the wings are very broad, another feature of LSE compare to HB. It is about 60% of the wing widbt. In the Goshawk, this length is around 90%.

 

[JayFeatherPL]

"And actually in the photo of the goshawk you uploaded, the goshawk has much shorter tail than a HB or a LSE😅"

This is typically a difference between theory and field. In the field, it is usually almost impossible to see where the tail is really starting. So we compare the width of the wing with the length of the rest of the bird from the wing trailing edge to the tip of the tail. Here, in your bird (that is LSE) as in my French (from the only pair breeding there in 2015), the tail start at the trailing edge level, because the wings are very broad, another feature of LSE compare to HB. It is about 60% of the wing widbt. In the Goshawk, this length is around 90%.

Thanks for explaining! I've learnt something new But could you please tell me how I can separate the HB from the Goshawk? I've written why these birds are so similar and in my opinion, there actually is a need to compare these two. I completely can't understand why everyone compares HB to the common buzzard and why no one has ever compared HB to the Goshawk! In my opinion HB is much more similar to the Goshawk than to the common buzzard.

I know about the lenght of the wings but this can be hard to judge in the field. The lenght of the tail can also be misleading...(it's hard to estimate how much the tail is longer than the width of the wings). If you look at the silhouettes of these two they look the same, don't they?

 

[THE_FERN]

If you look at the silhouettes of these two they look the same, don't they?

Not really. Look at images above of goshawk. The head/neck is much shorter than either the eagle or honey buzzard

 

[JayFeatherPL]

Not really. Look at images above of goshawk. The head/neck is much shorter than either the eagle or honey buzzard

...But it's much longer than in sparrowhawk...And please don't mess eagles with goshawks. Eagles are completely different from goshawks. I'd like to compare Goshawk to Honey Buzzard only.

 

[Richard Prior]

You’re going round in circles I’m afraid, Honey Buzzard is completely different to Goshawk in the field, I get the feeling you’re looking at illustrations in books or isolated photos which can sometimes give an odd shape and getting yourself in an unnecessary tangle, no offence meant!

 

[Valéry Schollaert]

Thanks for explaining! I've learnt something new But could you please tell me how I can separate the HB from the Goshawk? I've written why these birds are so similar and in my opinion, there actually is a need to compare these two. I completely can't understand why everyone compares HB to the common buzzard and why no one has ever compared HB to the Goshawk! In my opinion HB is much more similar to the Goshawk than to the common buzzard.

I know about the lenght of the wings but this can be hard to judge in the field. The lenght of the tail can also be misleading...(it's hard to estimate how much the tail is longer than the width of the wings). If you look at the silhouettes of these two they look the same, don't they?

Jay,

If you want mw to explain, don't try to convince me you know already.

"there actually is a need to compare these two" I just told you the oppositve
"In my opinion HB is much more similar to the Goshawk than to the common buzzard." Not at all
"I know about the lenght of the wings but this can be hard to judge in the field." No, it is very easy
"If you look at the silhouettes of these two they look the same, don't they?" No, they don't they are very different.

I suggest you watch them more in the field, soon you'll find them easy.