How many ditched their spotter for higher powered bino’s? (1 Viewer)

[Hauksen]

Hi Patudo,

If all you need is to confirm ID you can do that without the bulk and complexity of image stabilization; if you need a steadier view you can often times sit down or brace your elbows against something.

Well, I just acquired the Canon 10x42 IS ... not much experience yet, but I'd say it's more stable than mere bracing, and the stability is immediately available. For anything that's hard to identify with the stabilization off, the stabilization button really could be labeled "instant ID".

Of course, in the end, it just extends one's range by a certain amount, and I'll admit the pair is suprisingly heavy and bulky.

If there was a small wader on the far shoreline it wouldn't be much more identifiable with IS than without, you'd need a scope for that.

Well, that's a bit misleading. Range is a continuum, and you're implying that birds are either close enough to be identified with unstabilized binoculars, or far enough away that they can't be identified by stabilized ones. For the same bird, the limit might be (making up numbers here for the sake of the example) 90, 120 and 300 m for unstabilized, stabilized, scope respectively.

The exact ratio between the first two numbers is the interesting one ... not sure if there is any good data on this, my suggestion of a 3/4 ratio is completely imaginary.

Regards,

Henning

 

[NZbinodude]

I'm a hunter, and I'm slowly dipping my toes into the world of birding.

Just because a tool is a happy compromise, does not mean it renders other tools completely redundant.

While high magnification binoculars (mounted) may provide more detail than lower mag binoculars, I don't think they can be considered general purpose tools. They're not as versatile as lower magnification (6-10x binoculars), and they're not nearly as useful as spotting scopes for identifying, or closely studying, wildlife.

If you own a low magnification pair of binoculars AND a spotting scope, you're basically set for any situation. Those two tools will cover the entire magnification/FOV spectrum. If you're building a glassing 'system', it makes more sense to invest in those first.

On the other hand - If you've got a high magnification binocular AND a lower magnification binocular, or a high magnification binocular AND a spotting scope, you'll likely be left short in some situations. Either because you don't have enough field of view/handing versatility, or because you don't have enough zoom.

I think the high magnification binocular (mounted) is a useful specialized tool. Something that can compliment your low-mag bino + spotter set-up.

Or...if you only glass in wide open spaces, and you're 100% sure you don't need the absolute detail a spotter provides, then the high-mag mounted bino may be a good all-rounder. But I don't feel like it's a 'universal replacement' for either a spotter or low mag binos.

 

[KevinL]

I'm a hunter, and I'm slowly dipping my toes into the world of birding.

Just because a tool is a happy compromise, does not mean it renders other tools completely redundant.

While high magnification binoculars (mounted) may provide more detail than lower mag binoculars, I don't think they can be considered general purpose tools. They're not as versatile as lower magnification (6-10x binoculars), and they're not nearly as useful as spotting scopes for identifying, or closely studying, wildlife.

If you own a low magnification pair of binoculars AND a spotting scope, you're basically set for any situation. Those two tools will cover the entire magnification/FOV spectrum. If you're building a glassing 'system', it makes more sense to invest in those first.

On the other hand - If you've got a high magnification binocular AND a lower magnification binocular, or a high magnification binocular AND a spotting scope, you'll likely be left short in some situations. Either because you don't have enough field of view/handing versatility, or because you don't have enough zoom.

I think the high magnification binocular (mounted) is a useful specialized tool. Something that can compliment your low-mag bino + spotter set-up.

Or...if you only glass in wide open spaces, and you're 100% sure you don't need the absolute detail a spotter provides, then the high-mag mounted bino may be a good all-rounder. But I don't feel like it's a 'universal replacement' for either a spotter or low mag binos.

Very thoughtful post, I totally agree.

 

[KevinL]

The hunting community is not ditching their spotters per se. They are just being more choosy about when to carry a spotter way into the back country in specific situations. I think its just a realization of that community on how much they can see with a binocular on a tripod and making a tradeoff on weight decisions. I definitely think the same thing could happen with birders once more birders try a binocular on a tripod and see for themselves how much they can see, even with just their hand held binoculars. And if a 3 lbs, 12x or 15x bin can let you see most or even all of what you need to see, why carry a 6lbs spotting scope, especially on a long walk? I can think of a lot of birding situations where I carried a spotter when I could have gotten by very nicely just by putting my binoculars on a tripod instead. I can also think of a lot of situations where I carried a spotter a long ways without ever getting the thing out. I find it a bit nonsensical to reject a method of optics use just because another community who you object to uses it. And seriously, as a wildlife biologist, I have a critical need to make positive identifications, and I often do so with much more than with fine details, for example profile, song, flight patterns, habitat associations, behaviors, relative size, etc. On the other hand, if you just want to enjoy the beauty of birds, which is why many of us get into birding, well nothing beats a good spotter. Except eh well, a good astro scope, but that's another topic.

 

[Mono]

Just a reminder this is a birding forum.

 

[Thotmosis]

It would be wise to make a general statement here on birdforum as what you can write or not regarding hunting related posts. Personally I am for maximum freedom of speech but the owners of the forum might think differently. So clarity for everybody can be usefull. Eg: can we use the word "hunter", "hunting" yes or no?

 

[Thotmosis]

In the hunting community many are leaving their spotting scopes and are mounting 12x/15x on tripods instead

I have embraced this change as well. Two eye view is more comfortable, image is brighter, less eye fatigue, wider field of view, bigger exit pupil, are all big benefits

in addition image scale is not that dramatically different. when comparing my 12x bino to 20x scope or my 15x bino to 30x scope it’s fairly close


any other converts here?

Im not a hunter but I have nothing against them in fact I like fresh meat better than unidentifiable meat from the supermarkets in Western Europe. Anyway: for general use I like Big Eyes binoculars beter then my spotting scope. I bought a Zeiss Dialyt 18-45x65 for hiking in the mountains here on Crete but honestly after a few months I don't take them with me anymore. I use them now for distant maritime traffic and looking at the moons of Jupiter 😇

​

 

[KevinL]

Just a reminder this is a birding forum.

Point taken, but the trend in the use of optics by hunters is important context and germane to this thread. I have tried to be careful to limit the conversation so that it is relevant to birding. I have also tried to carefully limit the conversation to their use of optics as the focus of my posts rather than anything about hunting itself. Hopefully it is not offensive to acknowledge that hunters use optics and that those usage trends might also be advantageous to birding. After all, the ways that hunters use their optics are demanding and the characteristics that make a binocular good for hunters in many cases are the same characteristics that make binoculars good for birding. If that's out of bounds then I will cease and desist.

 

[Thotmosis]

Point taken, but the trend in the use of optics by hunters is important context and germane to this thread. I have tried to be careful to limit the conversation so that it is relevant to birding. I have also tried to carefully limit the conversation to their use of optics as the focus of my posts rather than anything about hunting itself. Hopefully it is not offensive to acknowledge that hunters use optics and that those usage trends might also be advantageous to birding. After all, the ways that hunters use their optics are demanding and the characteristics that make a binocular good for hunters in many cases are the same characteristics that make binoculars good for birding. If that's out of bounds then I will cease and desist.

So true, also it would be ridiculous not to be able to post a link to (the sponsor of this forum) a spotting scope that is advertised as a hunter tool but that I use as a general all purpose tool...

ZEISS Dialyt 18-45x65 | The hunting field spotter for observation over long distance

The waterproof and condensation-free design makes the ZEISS Dialyt 18-45x65 ready for use at any time – pull it from your backpack and start watching.

www.zeiss.com

 

[KevinL]

I suspect that may change in the not too distant with evidence like this -

IS binoculars are one way to solve the problem of shake. Tripods are another way to solve the same problem. I have to admit the view through an IS binocular was pretty good when I tried one in a sporting good store a while back. Your video is further proof. That really is a nice view. It very well may be worth while to get one.

 

[Blue72]

my experience with IS binoculars is that they emulate a monopod mounted binoculars rather then tripod mounted

 

[PYRTLE]

131 posts and no one ( wildlife observers ) has yet fesssed up to ditching their scope for high powered ( > x 12 mag ) binoculars, what does that suggest? Quite simply, birders and naturalists are mobile and need an instrument that very quickly can locate a moving subject and rapidly focus onto that subject, in a second or two, be it quite near such as a flying butterfly or far away on the horizon like a soaring raptor.
You simply cannot do that with something like a 15 x 60..... it does not have the field of view for easy location, steadiness nor easy focusing for " snap " sharpness, nor the brightness in a wood or forest.
Secondly it is a bulky, heavy and cumbersome item to have hanging around your neck for several hours at a time. Most birders use binoculars for c.90 % of instrument aided viewing.....then set up the scope for detailed observation.

A high powered binocular is superb for lengthy observation when correctly mounted on a tripod and usually in a fixed position. And correctly identifying something at long range also takes knowledge and untold experience, not just good optics, though perhaps a seperate thread.
My first lesson when commencing retailing optics was a simple, " It is far more rewarding to see something well at low magnification than poorly at a higher one."

You're trying to unify two very different forms of observation - a bit like dragster racing against a rally car.

Blue 72. If you do a search on here you will find a survey of the specifications used by BF members. This should give you conclusive evidence.

Regards

 

[Blue72]

131 posts and no one ( wildlife observers ) has yet fesssed up to ditching their scope for high powered ( > x 12 mag ) binoculars, what does that suggest? Quite simply, birders and naturalists are mobile and need an instrument that very quickly can locate a moving subject and rapidly focus onto that subject, in a second or two, be it quite near such as a flying butterfly or far away on the horizon like a soaring raptor.
You simply cannot do that with something like a 15 x 60..... it does not have the field of view for easy location, steadiness nor easy focusing for " snap " sharpness, nor the brightness in a wood or forest.
Secondly it is a bulky, heavy and cumbersome item to have hanging around your neck for several hours at a time. Most birders use binoculars for c.90 % of instrument aided viewing.....then set up the scope for detailed observation.

A high powered binocular is superb for lengthy observation when correctly mounted on a tripod and usually in a fixed position. And correctly identifying something at long range also takes knowledge and untold experience, not just good optics, though perhaps a seperate thread.
My first lesson when commencing retailing optics was a simple, " It is far more rewarding to see something well at low magnification than poorly at a higher one."

You're trying to unify two very different forms of observation - a bit like dragster racing against a rally car.

Blue 72. If you do a search on here you will find a survey of the specifications used by BF members. This should give you conclusive evidence.

Regards

I just Think this forum is slow to embrace what other optics hobbies are gravitating towards in recent times

never had a birder at my beach want to switch back to my Nikon ED50 after using the mounted binoculars. All I hear is “oh wow! I gotta get one these”

if it’s not your cup of tea that’s fine

but for those who are open minded, might be pleasantly surprised

 

[Mono]

Optics are used by all sorts of hobbies and professions. There are techniques used by and products aimed at some segments of the optics market that are applicable in birding. Feel free to discuss their applicability to birding.

 

[Blue72]

Optics are used by all sorts of hobbies and professions. There are techniques used by and products aimed at some segments of the optics market that are applicable in birding. Feel free to discuss their applicability to birding.

how long do you glass for birds in a given session

 

[Maljunulo]

About the only thing a binocular and a spotting scope have in common is that they both are (usually) refracting devices and one uses them by looking through them.

 

[PYRTLE]

I just Think this forum is slow to embrace what other optics hobbies are gravitating towards in recent times.

Give examples and evidence of this recent migration then please to back up this statement.
Astronomers used to have lower mag. spotting scopes mounted alongside the larger units to locate an object in the universe before switching to a larger unit for detailed and prolonged viewing.
It's not just BF members, but wildlife observers globally who generally use binoculars under x 12 as the primary sports optic.
With respect, I think you also need to be open minded to the facts and responses here, but as someone reminded....
" Each to their own."

 

[yarrellii]

Well, I don't hunt nor do I know anything about hunting, but I think birding involves such a diverse array of habitats, climates and different conditions that making such broad statements is just missing the point about the variety of birding cirumstances.

So, for some people under certain conditions (such as hunting in the mid-west AFAIU) a tripod mounted hi-power bino is preferable. Well, that's fantastic, good for them, if that fulfill their needs, that's wonderful. There are many birders out there who simply find mounting a hi-power bino on a tripod simply does not fulfill their needs and preferences, as has been already explained.

So a 15x56 can show a lot in a confortable way... well, I'm sure a 50x80 can show more, and that can be crucial when it comes to ID distant waders, for example. As a personal story: some years ago I joined the local rangers for the winter waterfowl survey. Along with my 8x binoculars I was carrying a scope, as many birders do (the logic and benefits of a bino+scope combo has been already explained). I carried a light 15-45x60 mm Opticron, and my fellow birder carried a 20-60x80 Swaro. Well, there were times were ID was possible thanks to his scope. It was a gloomy day, and his scope shined in those conditions: your tripod mounted 15x56 would have been of little help, it would not have made many ID's possible, and it would have not allowed to quickly follow birds taking off... as our small 8x binoculars did. So there you go. Again, as many other times in any forum regarding any activity, what is valid for some users is of little use for others, and I guess that's the beauty of it all. If you think that, because of that, this forum is "slow to embrace blablabla", well, good for you, bearer of the truth.

Another example. Recently a poll was open by a forum member who assumed most birders (like hunters) would use harnesses or chest-packs to carry their binoculars. It turns out that, to the surprise of the OP, the vast majority of responders (+60 %) use the neckstrap provided. Are they dumb no to embrace harnesses? Well, I don't think so, maybe they simply know better than anybody else what works for them. As the OP has seen, the vast majority of responders to this post see little use in the original idea: Yes, a hi-power bino can be of great help in some circumstances (like the OP beach)... but that's just a tiny fraction of what birding is about, I'm afraid.

 

[Richard D]

If you're just birding from a static position e.g. a hide I can imagine a pair of tripod mounted high power binoculars are a reasonable low power alternative to a low power scope, but if I go out to a hide I also want to scan the surrounding area where high power binoculars that require a tripod aren't great so I'd need to carry a pair of 7/8x or 10x in addition to a pair of high power binoculars. An ED50 with fixed 20/27 is much lighter that a pair of 15x56 and gives me more range. Or I could carry a pair of 7x50's and just use a doubler in the hide giving me 14x50 at barely any extra weight. Maybe for sedentary birding high power tripod binoculars are fine, but they're not exactly practical for walking round.

 

[Blue72]

Give examples and evidence of this recent migration then please to back up this statement.
Astronomers used to have lower mag. spotting scopes mounted alongside the larger units to locate an object in the universe before switching to a larger unit for detailed and prolonged viewing.
It's not just BF members, but wildlife observers globally who generally use binoculars under x 12 as the primary sports optic.
With respect, I think you also need to be open minded to the facts and responses here, but as someone reminded....
" Each to their own."

I already have

I mentioned that scopes are pretty much extinct at PRS events, western hunt gorums are filled with those making the migration, and there was a recent discussion among astronomy forums with people know using binoculars as their sole instrument …just to name a few