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Message: <blockquote data-quote="oleaf" data-source="post: 1316073" data-attributes="member: 52491">Hi Steve,I didn't know Swaro was offering their new bin at $4k.  Given the current economic developments maybe they should rethink this.I don't think the big 3 are "reacting" to this new bin.  Sure.. a few people will buy it and say they had their eye on an EL... but if they were considering an EL from the beginning the Promaster would not even be on their radar.  What the big 3 will have to react to is a major economy down turn.  This will drive down prices.  The only thing Vortex and others brands have to "react" to is that their OEM is cutting into their markets with their "own" brand.  Which is what I think I'm seeing here.  I believe this OEM partner slid a design out before the brands who use said OEM finished completing their own models (based on the same bin).  You seem to be placing Promaster as a stand alone brand like the big three.  Look across the bin brands and you see familiar models in Minox, Leupold, Bushnell, Opticron, RSBP (or something like this) Burris, Vortex, Eagle Optics, Stokes?, Alpen, etc, etc, etc and now Promaster / Hawke.  And there is nothing wrong with these brands.  But this is the sea of brands that use OEMs to make their stuff.  And I think some of the bigger brands like Leupold, Bushnell, Vortex spend lots of time making their bins a little different from the rest.Swarovski, Leica, Zeiss, Nikon, Meopta and Leupold GR) are the companies I know of that make and control their own product from start to finish.  From idea to product.  This is why these guys are always different from the OEM crowd.  And this is why they command a premium in price.Costs money to spend time on ergonomics, optical design, manufacturing, marketing, unique features and actually pay these people to make these innovations.  That's the difference.  In the modern world anyone can cut costs.  I love seeing prices drop.  But the older I get... the reasons they drop leave me feeling a little sick and it's something I consider when I buy a product.  Just cheaper has it's problems.  You live in the states.  How low can we go?Low price is not an innovation.  If it was, McDonalds would have the most innovative cuisine.  They don't.  But, they have their place.  Do people still spend a couple hundred $$ on dinner?  Still do (and maybe that's not even really expensive)I still think if you spend a lot of time in the field the value of a premium bin will show over time.  In a couple months or years the value will show itself.That said... I can't wait to take a look at the hawke/Promaster bin!Cheers</blockquote>

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