• BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE!

    You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

hueti / huetii (1 Viewer)

Taphrospilus

Well-known member
Even if no clear dedication for Alcippe hueti David, 1874 I can accept what's written in the key that the bird was named for Joseph Huët (1827-1903) means this guy here. His full name is probably Joseph Frédéric Huët but I failed to find his death registration 23 February 1903 in Vacherie-les Andelys. But here p. 21 of 36 only as Joseph his birth date reconstructed.

Maybe the other Huët is here p. 27 of 51 as Nicolas (Giniviere??) Huët? If he was born in 1770 in Louvre as claimed sometimes I am not sure. I have seen Nicolas Huet the Younger (le jeune) 1770-Paris-after 1828 and Nicolas Huet (c. 1770-1830) so I am not sure what the correct dates are. But Touit huetii (Temminck, 1830) is very likely for this artist.

Take it for what's worth.
 
Last edited:

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Even if no clear dedication for Alcippe hueti David, 1874 I can accept what's written in the key that the bird was named for Joseph Huët (1827-1903) means this guy here. His full name is probably Joseph Frédéric Huët ...
Martin, this far I wouldn't bet on it ... [that is, the Frédéric part, the other parts seems fully correct, for the species (earlier ssp.) Huet's Fulvetta Alcippe (morrisonia) hueti].

Here, Monsieur Joseph Huët (1827–1903) "aide naturaliste” is abbreviated: "Huet, J. B."

Which refers to this paper in Nouvelle archives du Muséum d'Histoire Naturelle, vol. III (deuxieme series) 1880, about African squirrels (with some new species). In the same Journal the same guy also wrote, for examples; this piece (in 1879), and these ones (here and here, in 1883) as well as this one (in 1885). In neither one of those papers he's nothing but M. (Monsieur) Huet/Hüet (but not Huët!). However, no Initials at all, of his given name/s. This far I haven't seen any other Initial/s (elsewhere, for him) than simply "J.".

Either way, to me it looks like he was primarily a Mammal guy.

Where the (Dutch) Antiquariaat Schierenberg found that "B." is all unknown to me.

This far I'll keep him as simply: Joseph Huët, alt. Hüet or Huet [?!?] (1827–1903), in line with what I've already got in my MS, regarding todays huetalkippa (in Swedish), earlier a k a "huetfulvetta"]

But, as always, don't hesitate to prove otherwise and/or enlighten us all!

/B
--
 
Last edited:

Taphrospilus

Well-known member
Just give you the rational why I considered Frédéric here. Enter Huet (as name obligatore) Joseph (Prénoms) Select vers and enter 1903 and les Andelys as Commune ou département and search for it. Second option would be Louis Joseph. But of course no clear evidence as I havent seen the record(s).

J.B. probably a mixed up with Jean Baptiste Huet older (1745-1811) or younger (1772-1852) both artists.
 
Last edited:

l_raty

laurent raty
Maybe the other Huët is here p. 27 of 51 as Nicolas (Giniviere??) Huët? If he was born in 1770 in Louvre as claimed sometimes I am not sure. I have seen Nicolas Huet the Younger (le jeune) 1770-Paris-after 1828 and Nicolas Huet (c. 1770-1830) so I am not sure what the correct dates are. But Touit huetii (Temminck, 1830) is very likely for this artist.
I doubt the death record is his. Temminck wrote :
C'est à votre mémoire, digne et estimable ami, que nous dédions l'une des belles productions de votre art, porté au plus haut degré de perfection, vous en vîtes la dédicace sur la planche publiée dans la 83e livraison, mais l'expression publique de nos sentimens s'adresse à votre tombe: cette dédicace sera sans doute reçue avec bienveillance par vos parens, par vos amis nombreux, par ces élèves que vos soins ont formés, et qui ressentent encore vivement leur perte, et regretteront long-temps un ami si dévoué et un maître si habile.
("It's to your memory, worthy and estimable friend, that we dedicate one of the fine productions of your art, taken to the highest degree of perfection, you saw the dedication on the plate published in the 83rd livraison, but the public expression of our feelings is addressed to your grave: this dedication will probably be received with kindness by your parents, by your numerous friends, by those students which your care has trained, and who still deeply feel their loss, and will long regret such a dedicated friend and such a skillful master.")

This means he had died before Livr. 83 of the Planches coloriées appeared -- before 20 Feb 1830. The death record says 8 Dec 1830, which is not compatible with this.
 

Taphrospilus

Well-known member
This means he had died before Livr. 83 of the Planches coloriées appeared -- before 20 Feb 1830. The death record says 8 Dec 1830, which is not compatible with this.

Valid point. So Wikipedia is wrong as well here or BnF?

The question is if 1830 is correct. Not much time from 1829 to 20 Feb 1830. And that's why we can find also statements like Nicolas Huet (1770- vers 1830). Anyway here is the birth year in question. Some more on the family here or here about him
 
Last edited:

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
huetii as in
• Scarlet-shouldered Parrotlet Touit huetii TEMMINCK 1830, as "PSITTACUS HUETII" (note the spelling Perroguet Hüet, [sic] on the Plate, also in bottom left corner!), a k a Huet's Parrot alt. Huet's Parrotlet, (OD in Martin's Post #1, last link)

For what it's worth; DSI (Database of Scientific Illustrators) has him as Nicolas Huet (without umlaut, on neither vowel);
alt. Names: N. H. ; Hüet, the Younger / Huet le Jeune / Nicolas Huet II
[...]
Year born 1770 c. in Paris (Louvre)
Year died 1830

... and onwards (here).

Thereby, my main concern, how to write his Surname: Huet, Huët or Hüet? On either one of these guys, or both?

I tend towards using the latter.

/B
 

njlarsen

Gallery Moderator
Opus Editor
Supporter
Barbados
I doubt the death record is his. Temminck wrote :

("It's to your memory, worthy and estimable friend, that we dedicate one of the fine productions of your art, taken to the highest degree of perfection, you saw the dedication on the plate published in the 83rd livraison, but the public expression of our feelings is addressed to your grave: this dedication will probably be received with kindness by your parents, by your numerous friends, by those students which your care has trained, and who still deeply feel their loss, and will long regret such a dedicated friend and such a skillful master.")

This means he had died before Livr. 83 of the Planches coloriées appeared -- before 20 Feb 1830. The death record says 8 Dec 1830, which is not compatible with this.

Was the text you quote also from Livraison 83? I tried follow your link but could not figure it out.

Niels
 

l_raty

laurent raty
Was the text you quote also from Livraison 83? I tried follow your link but could not figure it out.
The text is on the back of a page which has "Recueil d'Oiseaux, 83e livraison." printed in the footer. (And "Feb., 1830" added in pencil.)
 

l_raty

laurent raty
Thereby, my main concern, how to write his Surname: Huet, Huët or Hüet? On either one of these guys, or both?
FWIW as well...

The diaeresis seems unnecessary in French, because it wouldn't affect the pronunciation of the name ('u' following 'h' is never mute, and 'ue' is not a diphthong; thus the two letters can only be pronounced separately).
(It might make more sense in a Dutch language context, I guess. In old Dutch, adding 'e' to a 'u' (or 'a') made the sound long -- thus, in the absence of a diaeresis, a Dutch might conceivably have been inclined to pronounce 'Huet' like 'Huut'. Of course, Temminck was Dutch.)

The standard French name of the parrotlet is "Toui de Huet" with no diaeresis.
 

Taphrospilus

Well-known member
What about Antoine Nicolas Huet (21 of 51) died 1. January 1829 Montmartre (which would fit to artists)? I know it is speculation. Might need Inventaire après décès: Huet, Antoine-Nicolas. Singes (rue des), n° 5

At least I found a...

Louis-Antoine-Nicolas Huet, huissier du cabinet de Madame Adelaïde

...if the same person, I have no clue. But seems not the same person see here.

But see Notoriété après décès de Nicolas Geneviève Huet, célibataire, peintre, arrivé le 8 décembre 1830, à Paris rue Saint-Jacques, n° 59.
 
Last edited:

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Publication history here or here at least partially.
Zoonomen has all the publication dates/years (at least most, as far as it seems possible to tell) of the 101 Livrations (1820-1839) of Temminck's (& Laugier's) Nouveau recueil de planches coloriees [d'oiseaux ...], here, ex Dickinson (2001), follow: Bottom left column / Citational (Source) Index/ [P] / Pl.Col.:

(livrasion) 83 Feb. 20 1830 ...
/B
 

l_raty

laurent raty
The text is on the back of a page which has "Recueil d'Oiseaux, 83e livraison." printed in the footer. (And "Feb., 1830" added in pencil.)
BUT...
When Livr. 83-86 were announced in Feb 1830 by William Jardine, in Edinburgh J. Nat. Geogr. Sci., n. ser., 3: 131-134, he wrote of plates 491-492: "The description deferred." https://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/2499467
(I was not aware of evidence of non-simultaneous publication of the plates and their text in this work, except in the first 20 livraisons. Note that the scientific names are available from the text; the plates only bear a vernacular; if the text was published later, the names are more than likely incorrectly dated.)
 
Last edited:

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
FWIW as well...

The diaeresis seems unnecessary in French, because it wouldn't affect the pronunciation of the name ('u' following 'h' is never mute, and 'ue' is not a diphthong; thus the two letters can only be pronounced separately).
(It might make more sense in a Dutch language context, I guess. In old Dutch, adding 'e' to a 'u' (or 'a') made the sound long -- thus, in the absence of a diaeresis, a Dutch might conceivably have been inclined to pronounce 'Huet' like 'Huut'. Of course, Temminck was Dutch.)

The standard French name of the parrotlet is "Toui de Huet" with no diaeresis.
But on/for "Alcippe Hueti" DAVID 1874, Monsieur Oustalet (who certainly was French) wrote the name: "M. Huët (Joseph), ..." (Martin's post #1, second link) versus no diacritical marks (umlaut/ diaeresis) in the Birth record (same post #1, third link)... ?

Which version to use?
:scribe:
/B
--
 
Last edited:

Taphrospilus

Well-known member
I would read his death registration here as Huet. His father was probably Jean Baptiste Huet (1772–1852). Joseph Huet no additional name.

For the other I would tend to Nicolas Geneviève Huet due to my last post.

Take it for what's worth.
 
Last edited:

Björn Bergenholtz

... also known as "Calalp"
Melanie,
Just to keep those guys, and their birds, apart ...

The dear old HBW (no longer Alive) Key had the following entry/entries, per 8th of December 2019:
hueti / huetii
● Joseph Huët (1827-1903) French zoologist (subsp. Alcippe morrisonia).
● Nicolas Huët (1770-1830) French painter, bird illustrator (Touit).

Björn
 

Melanie

Well-known member
Melanie,
Just to keep those guys, and their birds, apart ...

The dear old HBW (no longer Alive) Key had the following entry/entries, per 8th of December 2019:


Björn

The French text state that he was 63 years (soixante trois ans et trois mois) when he died. So 1770 as year of birth can't be correct.
 

Taphrospilus

Well-known member
BUT...
When Livr. 83-86 were announced in Feb 1830 by William Jardine, in Edinburgh J. Nat. Geogr. Sci., n. ser., 3: 131-134, he wrote of plates 491-492: "The description deferred." https://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/2499467
(I was not aware of evidence of non-simultaneous publication of the plates and their text in this work, except in the first 20 livraisons. Note that the scientific names are available from the text; the plates only bear a vernacular; if the text was published later, the names are more than likely incorrectly dated.)

Valid point.

This means he had died before Livr. 83 of the Planches coloriées appeared -- before 20 Feb 1830. The death record says 8 Dec 1830, which is not compatible with this.

As he died 8. Dec. 1830. For me it looks like the text to Livr. 83 was published after 8. Dec 1830. I am not considering the plates.

Anyway I was surprised to read another name discussed earlier in his death notification.

2) So the second man was the only painter of the museum and his full name was Lucien Alphonse Prévost to find here.

Leads me to the next questions. I wonder if Euryceros is really for Lucien Alphonse Prévost. Here OD and here the plate. At least I see see no hint to which Prévost it was dedicated. But see here. Lesson got the specimen from Florent Prévost and the plate here was from Prêtre (and not from A. Prévost)
.


P.S. @ Björn I am aware rather a nomenclature question than etymology. But as all was discussed here I beg your pardon ;).
 
Last edited:

James Jobling

Well-known member
Touit huetii
I took Nicolas Huët's dates from Christine Jackson, 1999, Dictionary of Bird Artists of the World, p. 299. The Key MS is now amended.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top