Hybrid Mallard x Pacific Black Duck? (Sydney) (1 Viewer)

[colonelboris]

Saw this fellow in the park and noticed it stood out from the Pacific Black Ducks. Looked slightly darker, has orange feet (instead of grey), more Mallard-type bill colouring, orange face (instead of buff) and a more speckled breast.
Any ideas?
Gheers,

Tony

 

[peterarras]

Hi Tony,
it looks perfect for a Pacific Black Duck to me.
I don't think it's a hybrid.
Cheers
Peter.

 

[Dimitris]

I agree with Peter,

Young birds do have a more orange face then adults and also look messier.

Cheers!

D.

 

[colonelboris]

Even with the orange legs, purple-blue speculum and yellow coming through on the bill?

 

[Dimitris]

Even with the orange legs, purple-blue speculum and yellow coming through on the bill?

Now that you point the bill out...

Speculum imo is within the normal range of PBD depending on the light as are the orange legs (that or all the PBD I've been seeing are of impure parentage :-O). The bill colour is unusual yes. Perhaps this bird is of impure parentage but it's definately not a first generation hybrid.

Cheers

Dimitris.

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

That is a difficult question! IN NZ there is a real hybrid swarm with all kinds of generations of hybrids, Backcrosses to parenst and crosses of hybrids of different generations. (In Australia much less so but also there occur hybrids)
But here´s my 5 c:
In certain angles the usually green looking speculum of PBD can show blue iridescence:
Speculum looking blue:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Pacific_black_duck_bibra_wa_gnangarra.jpg
http://www.birdforum.net/opus/images/thumb/8/8c/Pacific_Black_Duck.jpg/550px-Pacific_Black_Duck.jpg
Speculum looking green as usual:
http://www.charliesbirdblog.com/~charlie/SYD26feb06/blackduck.jpg

In the past I have been wondering how orange the legs of pure PBD could look, as there have been birds where I wasn’t sure and maybe others where I could have been fast to call them a hybrid (I do not remember any special case, but I had a similar problem with yellowbilled duck, where a few birds had very mallard-like orange legs without any other sign of hybrid origin)
In PBD, Legs seem to look brown or brownish orange sometimes (Especially in males?):
http://www.trevorsbirding.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/06/duck_pacific_black_0256a.jpg
http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~stocky/DO/PacificBlackDuck.jpg
http://australianmuseum.net.au/Uploads/Images/2182/Australian black Duck_big.jpg
http://ozladym.com/pics/Birds/Pacific Black Duck 1 - Swan Hill, VIC.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c6/Pacific_Black_Duck_Side.JPG

But bright orange leg colour seems to be indicative of mallard influence:
Some Hybrids (Not nessecarily F1):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/adelie/2206767635/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/acroamatic/2129573361/sizes/l/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/anthonycramp/3121452301/
http://peter.fullagar.com/uploaded_images/NZ hybrid drake IMG_9241-776415.jpg
http://www.tiritirimatangi.org.nz/Fauna/DuckGrey.htm
http://peter.fullagar.com/uploaded_images/NZ hyrid duck IMG_9242-793215.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/soulbridgemedia/2349885664/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/misterwindupbird/115704021/sizes/l/
http://newzeelend.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/mallard.jpg
http://www.hickerphoto.com/data/media/40/mallard-duck_15283.jpg
http://tonybruntphotography.com/Wor...y/birds/A duck/No frame/TB-50D-051109-250.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ajamer/3223709640/sizes/l/
However, there will certainly be overlap. And there are also hybrids with not very bright orange legs:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/niclai/3252173989/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wfalcon/2230338568/

you also sometimes see a slight yellowish tinge in the bluegrey of PBD bill colour.
So I would prefer in some cases to have more indications than just the leg colour , bill colour and speculum.
In this case, I would agree with the others, Your bird still seems to be in range of PBD to me. (If it has mallard genes it probably has them from a few generations back and certainly could not be F1)

And as you probably have already thought, hybrids and backcrosses in this population can be extremely variable, see these two males for example:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/cannopia/2154250820/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Anas_superciliosa.jpg

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

http://ebird.org/plone/newzealand/news/are-you-really-seeing-grey-ducks

This may be of interest--
but then a lot of these (Those PBD with what I´d call orangebrown legs) would be hybrids?!
and at least the upper of the birds in the 2nd photo in that link don´t really have a bluegrey bill for me... there is a slight tinge of yellow in that, giving the bill a bit greenish appearance...

I think that is again the probblem that slight colour nuances are seen differently by different people, so for me this one would have dirty orange-grey legs:
http://users.mcmedia.com.au/~stocky/DO/PacificBlackDuck.jpg

And here the right one would have a too broad posterior white line to the speculum:
http://australianmuseum.net.au/Uploads/Images/2182/Australian black Duck_big.jpg

still to me they seem like PBD....

what do you think?

 

[Joern Lehmhus]

And now i am not going to make thinggs easier (Sorry, Tony):

PBD with (for me) dirty orange legs or a yellow tinge on bill:
http://www.pbase.com/wildlifeimages/image/111131715
http://www.waratahsoftware.com.au/thumbnails/flora/tb_pacific_bduck_p1000706.jpg
http://peter.fullagar.com/uploaded_images/9-791827.jpg
http://peter.fullagar.com/uploaded_images/5-766842.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Anas_superciliosa_(Pacific_Black_Duck).jpg
http://www.pbase.com/wildlifeimages/image/96491419
http://www.pbase.com/charleybird/image/120000582
http://www.pbase.com/con_foley/image/104658185

What about this one? Very yellow bill…and slightly irregular head pattern.
http://www.distantsunartwork.com/Birds/water/bird.pacific.black.duck.photo.3817.jpg
and this one ? Fairly broad pale fringes to the feathers?
http://www.pbase.com/tonyb/image/63759488
Or this one:
http://www.pbase.com/image/119732139

And the other side of the range NZ “mallards”:
Males: Reduction of white neck ring and not full tail curls are common, some males even seem to have no full breeding plumage:
http://www.pbase.com/image/96490953
http://www.pbase.com/image/96490937
http://www.pbase.com/image/96490942
http://www.pbase.com/image/64872627

females often with unusual bill colours and more pronounced facial pattern
http://www.pbase.com/image/69392554

I guess in New Zealand you can only say if a bird is mallard or PBD by a look at the DNA.....
I just wish somebody had stopped the guys who thought:"Mallards in New Zealand? What a splendid Idea!"

 

[colonelboris]

Crikey! Thanks for that lot. If I see another funny one, I'm going to pointedly ignore it as it looks like a real problem to ID...
Cheers!

Tony