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I finally bought a spotting scope but I would like some more advise :) (1 Viewer)

Nigel Eves

Registered User
Hello everyone. I must confess I have been lurking here for quite a while. Thanks to all the info I gleaned here, I just purchased my first spotting scope; a Nikon Fieldscope 60 EDIII from Japan with a 30x Wide field eyepiece in excellent condition.
What a little beauty!
I took it out last night to view the moon and Jupiter and it is clean and sharp. There were no angled scopes available like it so I have a straight version which is ok but I need a taller tripod with a centre column that stays stiff in order to share views. Does anyone here know if there are any lower cost options that would suit me? Also, I'm thinking it would be nice to have 24x for more eye relief and a wider field or a maybe a 20-60 zoom eyepiece but again I'm concerned about the Field of View. Which one would you pick? Thanks in advance :)
 
Hi Nigel, congratulations on the scope - the Nikon FS series are hard to beat, even today. If you are concerned about eye relief, forget the zoom - it is very short with a narrow field of view. The image itself is very good and sharp, but far from user friendly if you wear glasses. On the other hand, the 24x is an absolute joy, and one of the best eyepieces made IMO.
A good scope deserves a decent tripod, as a poor and unstable offering will increase vibration, reducing the usability of your scope. Look for carbon fibre offerings (used can be fine if you are on a budget) from manfrotto, gitzo, benro, velbon, sirui.
 
There were no angled scopes available like it so I have a straight version which is ok but I need a taller tripod with a centre column that stays stiff in order to share views. Does anyone here know if there are any lower cost options that would suit me?
Read Tringa's "Tripod Primer" for a start. It's a sticky in the "Tripods and Heads" forum. Any specific recommendations depend on many factors: How tall are you? What can you/do you want to pay? How important is the weight? Will you use the scope a lot in windy conditions, e.g. for seawatching at the coast?

If I were you I'd start a thread in the "Tripods and Heads" forum.
Also, I'm thinking it would be nice to have 24x for more eye relief and a wider field or a maybe a 20-60 zoom eyepiece but again I'm concerned about the Field of View. Which one would you pick? Thanks in advance :)
The 24x is an excellent eyepiece, both the WA version and the DS. Have you got a problem with the eyerelief of the 30x WA? That would be surprising; it has plenty enough eyerelief for most people. That said, I personally prefer the 24x as a general purpose eyepiece over the 30x WA, but that's just me - I always preferred ~25x over 30x.

The zoom - well, it's narrow, and the eyerelief doesn't work for many, if not most wearers of eyeglasses. However, the 20-60x is optically excellent, and some knowledgable people (like Kimmo) think it's optically even better than the wideangles. I tend to agree. And of course the zoom allows you to use high magnifications. If your scope is a good one, 60x should work in good conditions. That can be surprisingly useful on occasion.

Hermann
 
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Hi Nigel, congratulations on the scope - the Nikon FS series are hard to beat, even today. If you are concerned about eye relief, forget the zoom - it is very short with a narrow field of view. The image itself is very good and sharp, but far from user friendly if you wear glasses. On the other hand, the 24x is an absolute joy, and one of the best eyepieces made IMO.
A good scope deserves a decent tripod, as a poor and unstable offering will increase vibration, reducing the usability of your scope. Look for carbon fibre offerings (used can be fine if you are on a budget) from manfrotto, gitzo, benro, velbon, sirui.
Thanks very much for your response. I will watch for a 24x to pop up on ebay. I can work with the 30x. It's as good as any astronomy eyepiece I own. It's got 10mm of eye relief I believe, which is enough, but it feels strange after using my binoculars which have a quite bit more. I'm sure I'll get used to it. The search for a decent tripod may take some time. I'm 6 foot tall but my birding buddy is quite a bit taller. I have an aluminum Manfrotto with a Wimberley gimbal for now but it is too short, too heavy and too cold to carry in winter. Otherwise it's great :)
 
Hello, Nigel. Just saw your questions on this thread. On what to use for a tripod? There are so many options nowadays . I would say, get the very "best" you feel you can afford and learn to use it to the point "second nature". Your tripod should not be a "worry" issue. My most used tripod is a Gitzo Studex Porformence topped off with a good swivel head. It is heavier then some but after 30+ years it is still a good user.
On spotting scope lenses I still find a 20X60 a good user due to the ease of finding the subject quickly, then power up for greater detail. This is just my opinion . P.S. I do have 32X wide for a Leica 77 but find it less versatile . Enjoy Views.
 
I can work with the 30x. It's as good as any astronomy eyepiece I own. It's got 10mm of eye relief I believe, which is enough, but it feels strange after using my binoculars which have a quite bit more. I'm sure I'll get used to it.
10mm eyerelief? The Nikon WA eyepieces have got quite a bit more, 17.9mm. Or is your eyepiece one of the old 30x eyepieces, originally made for the first Nikon Fieldscope? Post a photo of the eyepiece, if you can. Doesn't need to be a nice photo, just so one can identify the eyepiece.

Hermann
 
Read Tringa's "Tripod Primer" for a start. It's a sticky in the "Tripods and Heads" forum. Any specific recommendations depend on many factors: How tall are you? What can you/do you want to pay? How important is the weight? Will you use the scope a lot in windy conditions, e.g. for seawatching at the coast?

If I were you I'd start a thread in the "Tripods and Heads" forum.

The 24x is an excellent eyepiece, both the WA version and the DS. Have you got a problem with the eyerelief of the 30x WA? That would be surprising; it has plenty enough eyerelief for most people. That said, I personally prefer the 24x as a general purpose eyepiece over the 30x WA, but that's just me - I always preferred ~25x over 30x.

The zoom - well, it's narrow, and the eyerelief doesn't work for many, if not most wearers of eyeglasses. However, the 20-60x is optically excellent, and some knowledgable people (like Kimmo) think it's optically even better than the wideangles. I tend to agree. And of course the zoom allows you to use high magnifications. If your scope is a good one, 60x should work in good conditions. That can be surprisingly useful on occasion.

Hermann
Thanks so much Hermann, for the thoughtful reply. I have read Tringa's Primer with great interest. It seems like very good advice, so I copied the ideal dimensions re: height and circumference. etc to my notes. I really enjoy reading the kind of granular detail that only a user can provide. It's because of your reviews and a few others that I was drawn to the old Nikon Fieldscopes as an option, so thanks for that. For only 750 Canuck bucks I'm in the game. I can't justify spending several thousand dollars on something I will use for a few hours a year and I'm less than impressed by most of the scopes that I have had a chance to look through. A binocular view is so nice after all and I have a bit of experience with good astronomy gear so I'm easily annoyed I guess.
Re: tripods and heads, perhaps I'll sell my car and buy a Gitzo or a Berlebach but I'm praying there's a reasonable substitute out there.
Re: the 30 x eyepiece. I have attached a pic below. I'm quoting the eye relief figures from an old Nikon brochure I found here but it seems right. I have no experience with measuring eye relief but I did a simple test with a cotton swap on the scope and my then my binos and got the result seen in the photo. The scope measured 10mm and the binos 15mm. The binos are easier to use for sure as they are attached to me whereas the scope is on a shuddering tripod that I am swaying around. I'm beginning to see the reasoning on getting the best tripod :)
 

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Hello, Nigel. Just saw your questions on this thread. On what to use for a tripod? There are so many options nowadays . I would say, get the very "best" you feel you can afford and learn to use it to the point "second nature". Your tripod should not be a "worry" issue. My most used tripod is a Gitzo Studex Porformence topped off with a good swivel head. It is heavier then some but after 30+ years it is still a good user.
On spotting scope lenses I still find a 20X60 a good user due to the ease of finding the subject quickly, then power up for greater detail. This is just my opinion . P.S. I do have 32X wide for a Leica 77 but find it less versatile . Enjoy Views.
Thanks a heap Hillclocks for the comments. I can count on one hand the people I know with spotting scopes and they all use flimsy tripods. All but one is a Vortex. The tripods are worse than the scopes. I tell myself I'm going to save up until I can get it right, but my history tells a different story.
 
Re: the 30 x eyepiece. I have attached a pic below. I'm quoting the eye relief figures from an old Nikon brochure I found here but it seems right. I have no experience with measuring eye relief but I did a simple test with a cotton swap on the scope and my then my binos and got the result seen in the photo. The scope measured 10mm and the binos 15mm.
Your eyepiece is indeed the 30x/38x Wideangle, the second version with the screw down/screw up eyecup. (The first version had a fold down rubber eyecup.) I attached a scan from a Nikon catalogue from 2005. Your eyepiece is the "30x/38x wide MC Weitwinkelokular", and the table shows the eyerelief ("Abstand der Austrittspupille") as 17.9mm. I've got the same eyepiece, and I find the eyepiece works beautifully with eyeglasses. It's an excellent eyepiece, and difficult to find nowadays. Also works very well on the ED50 (20x magnification on the ED50).

What you need to know is that the exit pupil of an eyepiece isn't exactly at the end of the eyecup, it's some millimeters above that eyecup. So you can't just measure the eyecup extension to arrive at the eyerelief. If you screw the eyecup of the Nikon eyepiece down, you should be able to see the complete FOV with your glasses, unless you've got pretty unusual glasses ... :cool: Large aviator style eyeglasses work less well than smallish, close-fitting eyeglasses.

There are a couple of possible reasons why you find seeing the entire FOV difficult, none of them related to the eyepiece itself: (a) Insufficient height of the tripod, so you can't place the entrance pupil of the eye in the exit pupil of the eyepiece, (b) a tripod that's not stable enough for the scope, so the exit pupil of the scope moves around a lot, and (c) a lack of experience in using terrestrial scopes. (I think using a terrestrial scope takes some practice, quite a bit more than using binoculars.)

On the subject of tripods: If you only use the tripod occasionally, and if you don't walk long distances with it, you might want to go for an aluminium tripod with a half-way decent video head. A bit heavier but also a lot cheaper than a state-of-the-art carbon fibre tripod, especially if you find a used one. There are for instance a couple of Manfrottos that might fit the bill. Do make sure you get one that's tall enough, especially if you also want to use it on the night sky. You don't want to fully extend the middle column to keep things stable.

Hermann
 

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+1 for old Gitzo Studexes.
I use a G1312 with my scopes, which is an aluminium tripod with a geared column. It is classed as a series 3 tripod and is a Studex Mk2. Max height is 176 cm, 157 cm with the column retracted. Max load is 10 kg. Weighing 3.25 kg itself it is not going to be you first choice for hiking, but it is a solid performer for at home or if you drive to the viewing point. For a head I have the Gitzo GHF2W, which is a 2-way tilt-pan head. You can set 'counterweight' to balance your scope and it is a fluid head. It adds another 5.5 cm to the height, weighs ca. 600 g and has a load rating of 4 kg.
For me at 6'4" it is a good solution providing a steady base. When I use it with a straight scope I tend to use a WalkStool.
 
Your eyepiece is indeed the 30x/38x Wideangle, the second version with the screw down/screw up eyecup. (The first version had a fold down rubber eyecup.) I attached a scan from a Nikon catalogue from 2005. Your eyepiece is the "30x/38x wide MC Weitwinkelokular", and the table shows the eyerelief ("Abstand der Austrittspupille") as 17.9mm. I've got the same eyepiece, and I find the eyepiece works beautifully with eyeglasses. It's an excellent eyepiece, and difficult to find nowadays. Also works very well on the ED50 (20x magnification on the ED50).

What you need to know is that the exit pupil of an eyepiece isn't exactly at the end of the eyecup, it's some millimeters above that eyecup. So you can't just measure the eyecup extension to arrive at the eyerelief. If you screw the eyecup of the Nikon eyepiece down, you should be able to see the complete FOV with your glasses, unless you've got pretty unusual glasses ... :cool: Large aviator style eyeglasses work less well than smallish, close-fitting eyeglasses.

There are a couple of possible reasons why you find seeing the entire FOV difficult, none of them related to the eyepiece itself: (a) Insufficient height of the tripod, so you can't place the entrance pupil of the eye in the exit pupil of the eyepiece, (b) a tripod that's not stable enough for the scope, so the exit pupil of the scope moves around a lot, and (c) a lack of experience in using terrestrial scopes. (I think using a terrestrial scope takes some practice, quite a bit more than using binoculars.)

On the subject of tripods: If you only use the tripod occasionally, and if you don't walk long distances with it, you might want to go for an aluminium tripod with a half-way decent video head. A bit heavier but also a lot cheaper than a state-of-the-art carbon fibre tripod, especially if you find a used one. There are for instance a couple of Manfrottos that might fit the bill. Do make sure you get one that's tall enough, especially if you also want to use it on the night sky. You don't want to fully extend the middle column to keep things stable.

Hermann
Thanks for this great data. You are right of course Hermann. It's me not the eyepiece. I finally found time to go out this afternoon between snow squalls and I found a spot to sit and get a low and steady view. It was a lot better this time. With my head still, the eye relief is good and the views were excellent. I found a little raft of Horned Grebes that were a long way out in Georgian Bay. That sort of thing makes it all worthwhile. I'm going to pay closer attention to what the other scopers are using for a tripod. They guys I know have skinny bottom sections on their tripods. It seems they have sacrificed weight for stability. I wish tripods had a consistent labelling system for diameter, number of sections, weight etc. It would make the search a lot easier.
 
+1 for old Gitzo Studexes.
I use a G1312 with my scopes, which is an aluminium tripod with a geared column. It is classed as a series 3 tripod and is a Studex Mk2. Max height is 176 cm, 157 cm with the column retracted. Max load is 10 kg. Weighing 3.25 kg itself it is not going to be you first choice for hiking, but it is a solid performer for at home or if you drive to the viewing point. For a head I have the Gitzo GHF2W, which is a 2-way tilt-pan head. You can set 'counterweight' to balance your scope and it is a fluid head. It adds another 5.5 cm to the height, weighs ca. 600 g and has a load rating of 4 kg.
For me at 6'4" it is a good solution providing a steady base. When I use it with a straight scope I tend to use a WalkStool.
Thanks for this Ignatius. Those old Gitzos look really solid. Am I correct in thinking that the Studex is a step up from the Gitzo Weekender? Also, would you know where Gitzo Reporter fits in the lineup? I noticed one for sale on Ebay.
 
I wish tripods had a consistent labelling system for diameter, number of sections, weight etc. It would make the search a lot easier.
Nigel,

Manufacturer's data, particularly if you put it in a spreadsheet and make sure you are comparing like with like, can get you a long way. Eventually however there's no substitute for hands-on experience. In the UK most of our high street photographic shops who used to stock a good range of tripods have disappeared, but we do have some large shops or small warehouses on the edge of, or out-of-town with good stock and parking. These mainly cater for the big interest in digital photography, but I spent several hours in one of them trying out tripods for my ED50 10+ years ago. I have no idea what you have in Canada, but if you can find something similar it's worth the drive to get the hands on experience. We also have some specialist out-of town binocular/scope/tripod "shops" in the UK, but again, I don't know what you have in Canada. It might be worth a look. Google tells me you aren't a million miles from Toronto, which must have something like I have described.
 
Nigel Those good old Gitzos.......... If I may chime in, I use both Studex and the Reporter. As to the difference, The Reporter has 28mm upper leg column in 4 sections. The center column 28mm in sections. Height is 63" to the top of column. The Studex has 3 section legs at 32mm dia. and is 72" to top of column. These are both aluminum and a little heavier, but very well built and easy to set up.
 

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