I found that bird's colorful plumages reflect their needs for foods and enviroments (1 Viewer)

[morninglight]

No, because it would be a waste of time- Chris already provided detailed evidence against this, yet you did not address it nor admit you were wrong. So why should I try, when somebody much more knowledgeable on the matter than me (or you) failed?



Naturally I will find my own drawing more representative of a frog than a blob on a duck's face, because my drawing is a representation of my own perception- and thus I refer you back to my question about how differently two people (let alone two species) might perceive the same pattern.

Sorry, I did see Chris's evidence. Where is it? Chris, please tell me again.

 

[chris butterworth]

#32 ( and don't forget #375 )

Chris

 

[chris butterworth]

Do not distort what I said. I only do not want to argue with those aesthetic researchers that deny that birds can perceive beauty.
Dio you think you understand scientific method?

#1. No distortion, but I can understand why you won't 'argue' with those that disagree with your fatuousness.
#2. Yes :t: , but your interpretation of Popper conveniently allows you to negate scientific methodology.

Chris

 

[angusmcoatup]

I've only just found this thread, read it through and now I'm rocking gently, bewildered.

I'm going to try and raise Sushil. See what he thinks about this.

 

[chris butterworth]

The more I compare morninglight's published work and his posts on here the more convinced I am of being played. Although his posts appear to be in broken English there are times when this facade slips and when it's too good to be true. An experiment, or a hoax? I don't think we'll ever find out.

Chris

p.s. Better than Sushil though. There has been a bit more variety. :t:

C

 

[morninglight]

The photographs purporting to show the similarity between the King Eider and the member of Viviparidae? The areas in Eastern Siberia and North America that the Eiders breed in only have shallow pools overlying the permafrost and no freshwater molluscan fauna so why would the duck resemble something that it never comes into contact with? As for linking Mandarin Duck with a bivalve. The duck is the eastern ecological counterpart of Wood Duck and it's diet is, similarly, mainly composed of plant material. Yet again I ask, why would a mainly vegetarian duck evolve a feature based on a tiny bit of its diet, and what evolutionary advantage would it gain? I'm afraid you are attempting to link disparate items in order to make them fit your preconceived notions and pass the 'results' off as 'scientific enquiry'.

Chris

Are these your evidences to falsify the proposition that king eider likes eating quatic snail?

Can you distingush between the duck and the goose?
You lack common knowlede about the anatine birds. Is the duck a mainly vegetarian ducks? No! They more like fish, snails, worms....

According to this page, http://baike.baidu.com/view/3496658.htm
King Eider mainly eat shell fish, crustacea, mollusc, ... in winter, they also eat sea-weed.

According to this page http://baike.baidu.com/link?url=GXRcuGNWPujUXph2p8BK96KboBr_lgozevjHZufmCJzaxbUrkc6W8pGx0xn-A9nJ3r3xglgkATpbuGOxsXSuNnY2vkqLS0OFC7wHuzC5oJBkUr9_1JFYqFu-XGtQSqHi
King eider is a migatary bird, It also migrate to the middle of China, Huaihe River region. Yet we can find that river snail almost anywhere in China, including the Heilongjiang River rigon, the northernmost rigon of China. I am not sure if there are river snails in Russia.

You also misunderstand my idea.
I never said what a bird ate most was most beautiful to the bird.
What looks beautiful is not what a bird or a man eat more, but what a bird or a man likes more or seeks more often because of lack or dissatisfication.

Lack or dissatisfication instead of utility is the cause of beauty. This is my aethetic discovery. For example, for a prisoner, open country is more beautiful. For a vagrant, others' comfortble home are more beautiful.

This is why art often presents ideal prospect instead of reality.

 

[morninglight]

hmmm.... I wonder if we are part of an experiment here. I looked into some of the other information on Mr Lu's personal website, and found:

and

And from what I can understand of other publications from the same Mr Lu (which I admit I cannot understand much of!), I wonder if the misleading and unqualified responses are deliberately vague to test "information theory", which seems to relate to how information communication variability affects the "quality" of the understanding....!

How to use information criterion to evaluate a scientific proposition?

I=log[Post logical Probability/Prior logical Probability]

For example, Proposiotn A: Birds' colorful appearances came from adaption to nature.

Post logical Probability=1;
Prior logical Probability=1; after Darwin and Wallace published their book or paper.
So, information I=log(1/1)=0.

For example: Proposiotn B: Birds' colorful appearances reflect their needs for foods and enviroments.

Post logical Probability=0.3; I suppose 30% people believe or the listeners' confidence degree is 0.3;
Prior logical Probability=0.01; since the proposition is unexpected, or say, no one thinks so before.
So, information I=log(0.3/0.01)=log30=4.*bits.

Although A is more correct than B, yet, A provides less information.
Most people demand correctness, yet I am more interested in information.
That is why some people are angry with me.

 

[morninglight]

I wonder if there is an intellectual version of the 'Darwin Awards' that we could nominate him for.o

Chris

I can understand why so many people are against me.
Mendeleev's periodic table of the chemical elements and Wegener's continental drift theory were also jeered by many people at beginning.

 

[morninglight]

Why do I not want to argue with some aethetic researchers?
They define the beauty sense as a sense only mankind has. And then, they prove that animal do not have beauty sense by the definition.
But I believe that linguistic meaning depends on how we use language in daily life.
I cannot accept that definition.

 

[chris butterworth]

1. Yes
2. I'll forgive you for doubting my abilities, yet again. ( Theres no need to thank me ). Yes. And between Swans, sheldgeese, shelducks, Anser and Branta geese, Whistling-ducks, dabbling ducks, diving ducks, marine ducks and the individual genera and species. :t:
3. The molluscs that King Eider eat - are marine bivalves. Not lacustrine snails.
4. King Eider is a marine duck and a rare vagrant to China, as it is to the Okhotsk coast of Hokkaido ( which is closer to the east Asian wintering grounds of coastal Kamchatka. BTW As Heilongjiang borders the Amur region of Russia I'd expect the molluscan fauna to be the same, wouldn't you? ( I actually know they are - remember I mentioned post #357. You should have checked. :t: )

These may help with your understanding of the distribution of King Eider:-
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/clementschecklist/
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_birds_of_China#Ducks.2C_geese_and_swans
http://www.bsc-eoc.org/avibase/avibase.jsp?region=cn&pg=checklist&list=clements

Chris

 

[morninglight]

Please have a look at these pictures:
http://blog.sciencenet.cn/home.php?mod=space&uid=2056&do=album&picid=423471
http://blog.sciencenet.cn/home.php?mod=space&uid=2056&do=album&picid=423470#pic_block
The male king vulture and the paradisaea raggiana seemly provide mimic foods instead of patterns to attract the females.
Is that provided by the vulture a piece of gut?
Two pairs of paradises do similar thing. It can not be coincidental. What is they simulating? Only people who know their haibits can tell. Welcome to explore tegether with me.

 

[chris butterworth]

I can understand why so many people are against me.
Mendeleev's periodic table of the chemical elements and Wegener's continental drift theory were also jeered by many people at beginning.

You're not claiming your in the same league as ....................:eek!:
I'll give you one thing. You certainly brighten up the day. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Chris

 

[morninglight]

1. Yes
2. I'll forgive you for doubting my abilities, yet again. ( Theres no need to thank me ). Yes. And between Swans, sheldgeese, shelducks, Anser and Branta geese, Whistling-ducks, dabbling ducks, diving ducks, marine ducks and the individual genera and species. :t:
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Chris

:t: wow! you know so many bird's names! Sorry about that!
I know very little. But every paesant and I know that geease is vegetarian, yet the duck is sarcophagous.

 

[Mono]

Mendeleev's periodic table of the chemical elements and Wegener's continental drift theory

You don't think much of your theory then!

 

[chris butterworth]

:t: wow! you know so many bird's names! Sorry about that!
I know very little. But every paesant and I know that geease is vegetarian, yet the duck is sarcophagous.

Your 'broken English' slipped a bit there.

I know of no duck that feeds on corpses ( or coffins, if that was a typo ) and, I'm almost sure the rest of us on here don't either. Which species would that be? ( Waits, with baited breath. Not. ).

Chris

 

[chris butterworth]

You don't think much of your theory then!

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Chris

 

[chris butterworth]

Please have a look at these pictures:
http://blog.sciencenet.cn/home.php?mod=space&uid=2056&do=album&picid=423471
http://blog.sciencenet.cn/home.php?mod=space&uid=2056&do=album&picid=423470#pic_block
The male king vulture and the paradisaea raggiana seemly provide mimic foods instead of patterns to attract the females.
Is that provided by the vulture a piece of gut?
Two pairs of paradises do similar thing. It can not be coincidental. What is they simulating? Only people who know their haibits can tell. Welcome to explore tegether with me.

The wattle on the King Vulture looks more like Laetiporus sulphuratus (Bull. : Fr) Murr.

Chris

 

[Peter C.]

The more I compare morninglight's published work and his posts on here the more convinced I am of being played. Although his posts appear to be in broken English there are times when this facade slips and when it's too good to be true. An experiment, or a hoax? I don't think we'll ever find out.

Chris

p.s. Better than Sushil though. There has been a bit more variety. :t:

C

Yes, this plus the 'grasshopper in the beak' sub-thread steer me back towards this hypothesis; we're all part of somebody's web-based performance art installation.

 

[Andy Hurley]

How do explain the Barnacle Goose then? A few clicks here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barnacle_Goose

suggests

Nature produces [Bernacae] against Nature in the most extraordinary way. They are like marsh geese but somewhat smaller. They are produced from fir timber tossed along the sea, and are at first like gum. Afterwards they hang down by their beaks as if they were a seaweed attached to the timber, and are surrounded by shells in order to grow more freely. Having thus in process of time been clothed with a strong coat of feathers, they either fall into the water or fly freely away into the air. They derived their food and growth from the sap of the wood or from the sea, by a secret and most wonderful process of alimentation. I have frequently seen, with my own eyes, more than a thousand of these small bodies of birds, hanging down on the sea-shore from one piece of timber, enclosed in their shells, and already formed. They do not breed and lay eggs like other birds, nor do they ever hatch any eggs, nor do they seem to build nests in any corner of the earth.[7]

 

[chris butterworth]

Yes, this plus the 'grasshopper in the beak' sub-thread steer me back towards this hypothesis; we're all part of somebody's web-based performance art installation.

I think the Grasshopper / Tragopan photo slipped by Mr. Lu initially. Still, replying to his posts gives me a break from writing grant applications. :t:

Chris