I have Carson 10x42 3d ED's and want to upgrade to Maven's or similar. (1 Viewer)

[Intercooler]

I have these: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/851312-REG/Carson_TD_042ED_3D_Series_TD_042ED_10x42.html

And plan on giving them to my Wife for her use. I'm mainly a birder and want to step up and they say Mavens are close to Swarovki for ~$1000. That's about my budget for this upgrade. I called Maven today and they suggested these three:

-B1 8x42
-B2 7x42
-B2 9x45

Which of those three seems to be the most popular? Any other brand/selection in the $900-$1000 range to look at?

 

[WJC]

I have these: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/851312-REG/Carson_TD_042ED_3D_Series_TD_042ED_10x42.html

And plan on giving them to my Wife for her use. I'm mainly a birder and want to step up and they say Mavens are close to Swarovki for ~$1000. That's about my budget for this upgrade. I called Maven today and they suggested these three:

-B1 8x42
-B2 7x42
-B2 9x45

Which of those three seems to be the most popular? Any other brand/selection in the $900-$1000 range to look at?

Most popular? 8x42. What matters is WHAT MATTERS TO YOU!

These days you can get 97% of the opto/mechanical quality of the BIG THREE well below the sums you have mentioned. You won't get the snob appeal or resale appeal, but you CAN get the performance and possibly the customer service. Choose wisely ... and not from an online catalog. :cat:

Bill

PS Being an “egotistical,” “self-serving,” “condescending,” and worse sort. I would direct you to the thread titled “Bino thoughts.” It deals with a TINY tip of the iceberg. But it’s a start. Welcome to BF.

 

[eitanaltman]

The Carson 3D ED is well respected as a solid budget model with excellent optics for the price.

So the big question is what are you looking for from this upgrade? Obviously you want something "better", but what specifically do you like and dislike about the Carson 3D?

Also think about size and weight; the Carson 3D, like many budget 42mm models, is relatively compact and light weight. The 45mm Maven B2 models are quite a bit heavier and MUCH larger. The B1 models are a bit more compact, but still substantially heavier than your current Carsons.

Personally, I wouldn't want a binocular as large as the B2 for general birding. But some might be OK with it.

You are also looking at a wide range of magnifications (7x, 8x, and 9x) and your current model is a 10x. Do you want lower magnification?

There are so many choices to look at around the $1000 range, none are perfect, they just have different pros and cons. And you're looking at a mix of different models and styles, so it's hard to recommend something specific since your priorities don't seem to be fully fleshed out.

But you can rest assured the Mavens will be outstanding optically, equal to or better than anything else at the price point. And they have a "no risk" in home trial so you can order and return them if you don't like them. But I would wager the B1 8x42 is a better general birding glass than the B2, unless you really don't mind a long, heavy binocular.

At the ~$1,000 mark, if you want something on the lighter and compact side like your Carsons take a look at the Nikon Monarch HG, which is widely praised and has a very wide field of view. Another possibly is a used "alpha" model, for example there's a Leica Ultravid 8x42 BR in the classifieds here for under your budget.

 

[Rob from Texas]

Intercooler:

Those Carson ED are great binoculars. I had a pair for about 4 years. They were handy, light and dependable. Basically a steal. You will have to try a few to end up with a pair that beats them, yet remains that "user friendly". While you are checking out the Maven, maybe look at a Track Toric in 8x42. Should be just as user friendly as the rest.

Rob

 

[Intercooler]

This was my first pair of Bins and I think a wider FOV than 314' would help, which picking the 10X probably wasn't the best choice. I know I struggle at times picking up the bird. These seem to do pretty well in low-light, but I would like to get a bump there if possible with a little better sharpness/clarity.
My Wife isn't really a birder and she really likes the Carsons in the weather case. It's a win/win if I can find what I'm looking for to make both happen.

 

[eitanaltman]

This was my first pair of Bins and I think a wider FOV than 314' would help, which picking the 10X probably wasn't the best choice. I know I struggle at times picking up the bird. These seem to do pretty well in low-light, but I would like to get a bump there if possible with a little better sharpness/clarity.
My Wife isn't really a birder and she really likes the Carsons in the weather case. It's a win/win if I can find what I'm looking for to make both happen.

OK, we're moving forward! Definitely sounds like you should move down to a wide field 8x (which is the most popular birding format generally).

The next important questions is: are you OK with a binocular that is substantially larger and heavier than the Carson?

If not, then consider the Nikon Monarch HG 8x42, which is the best combination of excellent optics with light weight and wide FOV at the ~$1K price point.

The Maven B1 8x42 may be a wee bit better optically (just based on others reviews, haven't compared myself) but it will be bulkier and heavier, and not have as wide of a FOV as the Monarch HG.

If you don't want something big and bulky, you could consider a higher end 8x32. For example, the Zeiss Conquest HD 8x32 at the ~$900 price mark is terrific optically and has a very wide FOV. Another option which you should strongly consider is the the Kowa Genesis 8x33, on sale currently for $800 (normally $1200), it is also extremely bright and sharp with a very wide FOV.

 

[Intercooler]

Weight and bulk doesn't bother me. I carry the bins and a DSLR with 150-600 lens on it everywhere I go and never a bother. I'm built to handle it!

 

[eitanaltman]

Weight and bulk doesn't bother me. I carry the bins and a DSLR with 150-600 lens on it everywhere I go and never a bother. I'm built to handle it!

Ok then if you’re a big dude you should check out the B2, I would probably go with the 9x45 as the 7x45 FOV is barely larger than that of the 9x which will make it feel narrower in actual use. A large 7x without a wide FOV strikes me as more of a dedicated low light spotter for hunting vs a general use birding glass.

Maybe order the B1 8x42 as well and try both and see which you prefer. The B1 8x42 will be slightly more compact whereas the 9x45 B2 will be a bit heavier and longer but brighter and sharper with the larger aperture objectives and AK prisms.

There’s a GPO Passion HD 8x42 open box for sale at CameralandNY 20% off retail if you want another option. These have gotten very good reviews too and are pretty comparable to the 8x42 B1 optically: https://cameralandny.com/shop/germa...3de9-0137-3e5c-00163ecd2826?variation=1942170

 

[Intercooler]

I ordered the 8x42 MHG from Nikon. They had them refurbished for $685 and free shipping.

 

[eitanaltman]

Good choice, I guess you'll be stuck with something a bit lighter

Please report back and let us know how they are!

 

[chill6x6]

I ordered the 8x42 MHG from Nikon. They had them refurbished for $685 and free shipping.

That binocular should serve you well! I'm interested to hear how the refurb turns out! Please keep us posted..

 

[Rob from Texas]

Me3...let us know how the upgrade goes from the Carson Ed's 10x42 to the MHG 8x42's!!

 

[Intercooler]

I have been told every step in binoculars is a big step in money and smaller step in returns. Anyone agree with that statement?

I haven’t had a chance to field test the HG’s yet, but did do some home testing vs the Carson’s. This weekend will get the field workout!

Versus the Carson’s:

- The HG gives a clearer view. It’s like splitting hairs a bit and 8X vs 10X skews it a little
- HG ergos are just all around better. Very good hand feel and adjustments
- I can’t tell a ton of difference in the two in low light
- The increased HG FOV is noticeable and mainly what I was after

I might miss the 10X reach, but when I got the Carson’s way back I knew they were decent for $259 and they show out pretty good here. Did I get my $400 upgrade? I just might if the reach doesn’t become an issue. My first group of Warblers will tell me something!

 

[Intercooler]

Carson's and HG's

 

[eitanaltman]

I have been told every step in binoculars is a big step in money and smaller step in returns. Anyone agree with that statement?

Yes, the law of diminishing returns still applies to optics.

And the advances the past 10-15 years in Chinese manufacturing and trickle down technology on coatings, ED glass, etc. has push the knee of the curve further down the price scale.

In terms of on-axis brightness / sharpness, there is not THAT much difference between a good $300 China ED bin like the Carson vs an alpha. So if you just pick up the two bins and quickly compare (e.g. "can I read that sign over there?") they will seem fairly close.

But what you'll find with more extended use is that better glass is "easier" to use in the field, because of superior correction of optical aberrations and improved build/ergonomics that reduce fatigue from extended use. You'll notice you get great views more easily and more frequently, and situations where the cheaper binocular struggled (e.g. difficult lighting) the better glass will still provide nice views.

I don't really pass judgment on a binocular until I've used it in the field for several days and had time to accommodate and adjust to its quirks and get a feel for how it performs in different situations and with extended use in the field.

One thing is for sure though -- even if the MHG and Carson are close to the same in terms of brightness/sharpness in the middle, the HUGE increase in FOV and depth of field going to the wide field 8x will make for a much more pleasant viewing experience and especially when scouring for fast moving warblers at close range!

 

[Intercooler]

Any 10X bins in the 375' FOV worth looking at? I think larger FOV might trump more magnification and especially for Warblers in trees?

I'm kind of second guessing if I should have sent for the Mavens just to put that to bed and/or also look at some of the other option. This of course would be another outlay of $300 more to that final $1,000 mark.


Such as:

Conquest 8x42 HD
Vortex 8x42 Razor HD
Meopta 8x42 Meostar B1.1
Leica 8x42 Trinovid HD

Anyone know how they compare with the Nikon 8x42 HG's?

 

[eitanaltman]

The Conquest and Razor (and Trinovid HD) all have average-ish FOV's for an 8x (as does the Maven B1 8x42 and Tract Toric 8x42). Compared to the MHG they will appear less "walk in", but they may have other virtues which are worth more to you.

Interestingly, all but the Trinovid HD have above average FOV's in the 6.5-6.7 degree range in 10x42 guise. Not coincidentally.... they are all made by Kamakura in Japan.

The biggest differences between them are the different coatings which yield subtly difference color balance (Vortex is very neutral, the Conquest with the Zeiss T* coatings is brighter in the middle of the spectrum but not as saturated in red/blue so they can appear a bit green/yellow skewed, the Leica with its HLS coatings is a bit warmer like the Nikon). There will be subtle differences in color fringing, sweet spot size, distortion, etc. but by far the biggest difference will be ergonomics / weight / feel. The Razor HD is slim with minimal armor like the Monarch HG, the Trinovid has thicker armor but is more compact and just a bit heavier, the Conquest and Maven are bulkier and heavier.

The Meostar is a different thing altogether, produced by Meopta in the Czech republic. They are compact, but pretty heavy, and unlike most of the above list have a wide 7.8deg FOV in 8x42 guise. They will have a warmer color cast than the Nikons, a totally different compact-rounded-brick shape. Meopta makes very good glass.

That said.....

What's wrong with the MHGs? Are you having buyer's remorse? An itch that needs to be scratched? If so, give the Mavens a shot and utilize the free trial to go head to head for yourself. Otherwise, I would suggest you stop visiting this forum or else the disease will spread

 

[Intercooler]

It sounds like you know all the players really well! Lots to like about the HG's including the locking diopter!

The Warblers aren't here yet, but I'm headed out in the morning to see how these make my birding easier.

 

[Intercooler]

I went out this morning and put them through a workout! They did great in the field and really helped me pick up on birds easier. The hand feel and ease of adjustment really shine coupled with that large FOV. They also fit in my old magnetic Carson bag just fine with the caps removed (love the Carson bag!). Everything looked nice and clear for sure and at one point I heard a Cardinal up under a group of limbs... it was like it stuck out in 3D in that thick dark area. I see no reason given all of this to pursue anything else :t:

For anyone reading this it pays to "field" test. It's much different IMO than looking at things in/around the yard.

 

[chill6x6]

I went out this morning and put them through a workout! They did great in the field and really helped me pick up on birds easier. The hand feel and ease of adjustment really shine coupled with that large FOV. They also fit in my old magnetic Carson bag just fine with the caps removed (love the Carson bag!). Everything looked nice and clear for sure and at one point I heard a Cardinal up under a group of limbs... it was like it stuck out in 3D in that thick dark area. I see no reason given all of this to pursue anything else :t:

For anyone reading this it pays to "field" test. It's much different IMO than looking at things in/around the yard.

GREAT! The Monarch HGs really shine when actually looking at birds! Your last statement is right on! :t: