• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Where premium quality meets exceptional value. ZEISS Conquest HDX.

ID and status of White-browed Robin-Chat in Kenya - specifically Nairobi and Sagana (2 Viewers)

sbradfield

Well-known member
We have just returned from Kenya where we thought we saw White-browed Robin-Chats in both Nairobi NP and Sagana. On entering on ebird I was surprised that both records got flagged as rare and there seems to be no record of this species at either place in the last 10 years. Pictures below are from Nairobi NP, looking at them now, and taking into account the ebird flag it seems these might be Ruppell's Robin-Chat, tail looks quite blackish and thin supercilium? Are there any White-browed Robin-Chats in this area of Kenya? Thanks Simon
 

Attachments

  • DSCN9841.JPG
    DSCN9841.JPG
    1.1 MB · Views: 48
  • DSCN9843.JPG
    DSCN9843.JPG
    1.3 MB · Views: 47
  • DSCN9844.JPG
    DSCN9844.JPG
    953.9 KB · Views: 47
I think this is White-browed.

It's bizarre if e-bird says it's not there. Both experience and the books make clear that in the two locations mentioned it would be the default species.

One point about Rüppell's is that the central tail feathers are black, not olive brown. The OP's photo three clearly shows olive-brown, the same as the back.

Unfortunately I don't have many photos showing the tail clearly; I attach a couple. One shows a White-browed from Masai Mara where the central feathers of the tail can be seen to be like the OP's photo and not black. There is a second photo from Manyara in Tanzania showing the same thing. (I have a couple of photos from Nakuru, near the OP's locations, but unfortunately because of shadow and digital camera quality in 2008 the tail colour is not clear.

Also Rüppell's, as 'Birds of East Africa' says, 'is more of a highland forest bird than White-browed' and the habitat as seen in the OP's photos is clearly better for White-browed.

I attach two photos of Rüppell's (same bird) from Ethiopia which show the black tail. One photo with light shining on the tail emphasises my point, because it can be seen that even in bright light the tail is clearly black not olive-brown. Or so I think, at least.

On the supercilium, the Rüppell's we saw in Ethiopia had a supercilium that was narrow in front of the eye, but much wider behind. I don't know if this is a feature or an individual thing. ('Birds of the Horn of Africa' has the same text and illustrations as 'Birds of East Africa' so it was no help here.)

HTH

090101155 Masai Mara.jpg160101004 Manyara.jpg 120106303 ET Bale.JPG120106255 ET Bale.JPG
 
I think this is White-browed.

It's bizarre if e-bird says it's not there. Both experience and the books make clear that in the two locations mentioned it would be the default species.

One point about Rüppell's is that the central tail feathers are black, not olive brown. The OP's photo three clearly shows olive-brown, the same as the back.

Unfortunately I don't have many photos showing the tail clearly; I attach a couple. One shows a White-browed from Masai Mara where the central feathers of the tail can be seen to be like the OP's photo and not black. There is a second photo from Manyara in Tanzania showing the same thing. (I have a couple of photos from Nakuru, near the OP's locations, but unfortunately because of shadow and digital camera quality in 2008 the tail colour is not clear.

Also Rüppell's, as 'Birds of East Africa' says, 'is more of a highland forest bird than White-browed' and the habitat as seen in the OP's photos is clearly better for White-browed.

I attach two photos of Rüppell's (same bird) from Ethiopia which show the black tail. One photo with light shining on the tail emphasises my point, because it can be seen that even in bright light the tail is clearly black not olive-brown. Or so I think, at least.

On the supercilium, the Rüppell's we saw in Ethiopia had a supercilium that was narrow in front of the eye, but much wider behind. I don't know if this is a feature or an individual thing. ('Birds of the Horn of Africa' has the same text and illustrations as 'Birds of East Africa' so it was no help here.)

HTH

View attachment 1626550View attachment 1626551 View attachment 1626553View attachment 1626552
Interesting about the supercilium and perhaps this is right (would have to review more images but seems to work for headline ebird). It's sometimes difficult to judge because thickness changes with bird stance.

The tail colour seems to vary. E.g. this headline image of ruppell's has a tail colour which is (to my eyes) lighter than the op image:
I rate the op image tail as darker than most Macauley, at least those I looked at. In last image from rear it is slightly darker than mantle
 
Hi The Fern

I think black is black in the tail colouration difference between these species (which can seem different in different lights maybe but not when seen clearly as in the OP's photo). And I have a Birds of the World subscription, so I looked at the photos there (Macauley). I think a couple are clearly wrong, particularly the one by Nathan Mixon 5 Jul 2024 Karura Forest, Nairobi, Kenya. The ones I think are correct (not just from Ethiopia; there is also one from Tanzania) have clearly black central retrices - and as it happens, the supercilium shape that I pointed out which is not pointed out in the books I have.

No disrespect to your expertise, or my own, but if Brian Small happens to spot this thread then I think his comments would be helpful.
 
Hi The Fern

I think black is black in the tail colouration difference between these species (which can seem different in different lights maybe but not when seen clearly as in the OP's photo). And I have a Birds of the World subscription, so I looked at the photos there (Macauley). I think a couple are clearly wrong, particularly the one by Nathan Mixon 5 Jul 2024 Karura Forest, Nairobi, Kenya. The ones I think are correct (not just from Ethiopia; there is also one from Tanzania) have clearly black central retrices - and as it happens, the supercilium shape that I pointed out which is not pointed out in the books I have.

No disrespect to your expertise, or my own, but if Brian Small happens to spot this thread then I think his comments would be helpful.
We have found one or 2 examples of ebird headline images which are wrong (obviously many more others). If we're sure, suggest reporting. Did you review the headline image I linked? ...Tail there clearly not black
 
We have found one or 2 examples of ebird headline images which are wrong (obviously many more others). If we're sure, suggest reporting. Did you review the headline image I linked? ...Tail there clearly not black
I don't use e-bird at all (but I can see your links because I have a Birds of the World subscription). My local spot in Japan is polluted by e-bird visitors claiming to have seen birds that are simply not here, or birds that may have been seen once or twice but are claimed as common and so this is a 'hot-spot' for something or other.

On the headline image you link to, the central tail feathers are clearly black - it's not that every tail feather is black, but that the central feathers are black. In the OP's picures, all the feathers are olive-brown, and none are black.
 
I don't use e-bird at all (but I can see your links because I have a Birds of the World subscription). My local spot in Japan is polluted by e-bird visitors claiming to have seen birds that are simply not here, or birds that may have been seen once or twice but are claimed as common and so this is a 'hot-spot' for something or other.

On the headline image you link to, the central tail feathers are clearly black - it's not that every tail feather is black, but that the central feathers are black. In the OP's picures, all the feathers are olive-brown, and none are black.
The link was from the public ebird page (I don't have a botw subscription). In almost all cases, the headline images are the same for botw and ebird websites. Macauley image library available from either.

(I had a botw subscription once but found a) the incomplete and inconsistent integration of material was difficult to follow, use and b) the insistence on just Clements annoying

Our interpretation of the colours of the tail I linked differ. As I noted, for me this is if anything, lighter than the op image (inc central feathers)
 
I'm convinced it is a 1cy Rüppell's Robin-Chat.

We can see the the wings are brown, the flight-feathers are still juvenile or at least some of them. The young age is easily confirmed with some orange spots (typical juvenile feathers) on greater coverts.

This is why the center of the tail is not black, it is still juvenile colours.

The species is common around Nairobi but, in the national park, we don't have its prefered habitat. However, it is not unexpected to have a immature bird visiting during post-nuptial dispertion.
 
How do you know it was a 'definite Rüppell's'? Do you have any photos of this bird that you could post for comparison?
No, I didn't say "definite", I said that I was convinced. I never found any difference in plumage at this age, although I've seen bunches of both. The "jizz" and head pattern gave me a feeling of Rüppell's at first sight, but that's probably not enough in itself. However, this with the fact that OP thought it was Rüppell's while he has seen them elsewhere too and, even more important, the range, make Rüppell, by far, the most likely.
 
I'm convinced it is a 1cy Rüppell's Robin-Chat.

We can see the the wings are brown, the flight-feathers are still juvenile or at least some of them. The young age is easily confirmed with some orange spots (typical juvenile feathers) on greater coverts.

This is why the center of the tail is not black, it is still juvenile colours.

The species is common around Nairobi but, in the national park, we don't have its prefered habitat. However, it is not unexpected to have a immature bird visiting during post-nuptial dispertion.
As far as I can tell, Valéry, you are going on location and your feeling, and therefore claiming that the fact that the bird doesn't have the ID (physical) features it should for your preferred ID is because...
 
Last edited:
For general interest (perhaps Opus), are there any other characters apart from tail and perhaps supercilium [of course song] that distinguish these 2?
 
No, I didn't say "definite", I said that I was convinced. I never found any difference in plumage at this age, although I've seen bunches of both. The "jizz" and head pattern gave me a feeling of Rüppell's at first sight, but that's probably not enough in itself. However, this with the fact that OP thought it was Rüppell's while he has seen them elsewhere too and, even more important, the range, make Rüppell, by far, the most likely.
Valéry, you need to read carefully. It's not all about you!

I was asking sbradfield, the OP, and not you at all, whether he/she had a photo of the 'definite Rüppell's' that he/she saw on Mt Kenya so that we can judge the differences that the OP thinks were visible. That's all. My experience and comments from guides has been that Rüppell's is much more localised and difficult to see than White-browed.
 
By the way, The Fern, your post at #2 says:

I agree looks like ruppell's for the reasons you state.

But actually in post #1 the OP says that they thought it was White-browed and only thought of Rüppell's because ebird rejected White-browed. So what did you mean by 'the reasons you state'?
 
Valéry, you need to read carefully. It's not all about you!

I was asking sbradfield, the OP, and not you at all, whether he/she had a photo of the 'definite Rüppell's' that he/she saw on Mt Kenya so that we can judge the differences that the OP thinks were visible. That's all. My experience and comments from guides has been that Rüppell's is much more localised and difficult to see than White-browed.
No need to be agressive, be cool man.

Rüppell is much more localised yes but in its preferred habitat, montane forest, it is very common and show well such in Mt Kenya; ID is therefore easy as White-browed is absent. When you live in such a place, you see Rüppell's is hopping in you lawn and on the road/track side, such a Blackbird in Europe.
 
By the way, The Fern, your post at #2 says:



But actually in post #1 the OP says that they thought it was White-browed and only thought of Rüppell's because ebird rejected White-browed. So what did you mean by 'the reasons you state'?
My reading was they started thinking white-browed and then changed to ruppell's based on tail etc
 
Originally we thought WCRC thinking RRC was a higher altitude bird associated with less open habitat. It was only upon entering it into ebird and the record being flagged and going through photos on our return home that we began to change our mind.

In terms of the definite Ruppell's at Mount Kenya the guides suggest no WRRC at that altitude/habitat. The only photos I have of that bird are pretty poor as they were taken from below and don't show the upperside of the tail.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top