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ID Tips for new moth'ers (1 Viewer)

Surreybirder

Ken Noble
Steve Lister said:
Just bringing this very useful thread back into circulation!

And could we have some identifications to go with the photographs? Or am I missing something?

Steve
Steve, if you put your mouse over the thumbnail of the photo you will see its title.
Ken
 

Surreybirder

Ken Noble
3 kittens

The kittens seem to cause a lot of problems... I don't know if it helps but I've had all three in my garden. The following photos have been confirmed by my CR.
 

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Brian Stone

A Stone chatting
Steve Lister said:
Just bringing this very useful thread back into circulation!

And could we have some identifications to go with the photographs? Or am I missing something?

Steve

Sorry Steve, Lesser Broad-bordered Yellow Underwing Noctua janthe. As noone ventured an ID, despite Ken pointing out the obvious clue in the filename I really didn't think anyone was looking and was going to let the thread quietly slip away.

The fact that a couple of the species here have since appeared as ID requests also makes me think this isn't really worth the effort. Thanks though to Ken & Angus for valiantly adding a couple more tips. I still find Poplar and Sallow Kitten a tricky pair sometimes, although by far the easiest way to ID them is in the hand as Poplar is usually much larger.
 
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Surreybirder

Ken Noble
brianhstone said:
Sorry Steve, Lesser Broad-bordered Yellow Underwing Noctua janthe. As noone ventured an ID, despite Ken pointing out the obvious clue in the filename I really didn't think anyone was looking and was going to let the thread quietly slip away.

The fact that a couple of the species here have since appeared as ID requests also makes me think this isn't really worth the effort. Thanks though to Ken for valiantly adding a couple more tips. I still find Poplar and Sallow Kitten a tricky pair sometimes, although by far the easiest way to ID them is in the hand as Poplar is usually much larger.
You're right there, Brian. This was my first poplar and I immediately noticed that it was larger than my earlier kittens.
Don't give up on the thread. I'm sure it will prove useful in the long-run. the problem when you are a beginner is that you are trying to separate the 'easy' species and not really taking in tips on the difficult ones.
Ken
 

Nerine

Well-known member
brianhstone said:
I'll kick off with a cracking little micro that proves that these small moths can have bags of character.

The most distinctive thing about this common pyralid is the way it sits high on its front legs. The shape with gently S-shaped edge to the forewing and attractive reddish patterning add to the picture.

It is common at light throughout July and August and has a wingsspan of about 20mm.

Had two of these on the ceiling.

Excellent thread!!! I've been hunting high and low to id this one. Common name rose-flounced tabby? Very pretty little moth.

Thanks!

Nerine
 

Surreybirder

Ken Noble
Brian or someone.
I wonder if there's any chance of posting some pics of definitely IDed Hoplodrina species? Despite my best efforts at photoing uncertain/rustic (including some with hindwings showing to at least some extent) I'm still not getting anything accepted by my CR.
Ken
 

Brian Stone

A Stone chatting
I don't have many photographed hindwings but there are sets to look at online. E.g.:

The Uncertain (H. alsines/octogenaria)
http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/lif...octuidae/hadeninae/hoplodrina/octogenaria.jpg
http://www.habitas.org.uk/moths/set.asp?item=6486smup
http://www2.nrm.se/en/svenska_fjarilar/h/hoplodrina_octogenaria.html

The Rustic (H. blanda)
http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/lif...dea/noctuidae/hadeninae/hoplodrina/blanda.jpg
http://www.habitas.org.uk/moths/set.asp?item=6487smup
http://www2.nrm.se/en/svenska_fjarilar/h/hoplodrina_blanda.html

Vine's Rustic (H. ambigua) is easier due to the dusty looking upper surface and the really clean whitish hindwings.

I have to say I wouldn't have called that one on the NI site The Uncertain:
http://www.habitas.org.uk/moths/set.asp?item=6486smup

HTH
 

Brian Stone

A Stone chatting
Having said that it looks like I photographed one of each on Saturday morning. Unless anyone thinks different. Note the following:

The Rustic:
'Shinier' upper surface to forewing;
Pale regions of the hindwing with dark veins standing out.

The Uncertain:
Bold, dark transverse bar mid-way along forewing;
Uniformly fuscous hindwing.
 

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Surreybirder

Ken Noble
You're much better at getting the moth to show its hindwing than I am... and on the few occasions I've managed it, the moth has often moved before I could get my camera lined up.
The one I posted in the 'late July' thread had only part of its hindwing showing, so perhaps that's why my CR called it a Hoplodrina sp.
http://www.birdforum.net/attachment.php?attachmentid=26204
I'll have to keep trying.

Attached below are two photos from 2004 that my CR did accept... and a couple from this year that he hasn't.

Ken
 

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Brian Stone

A Stone chatting
I'd have called that The Rustic: Slightly glossy look, lacking a clear dark band, inner part of hindwing clearly not fuscous, but I can see why he was cautious about going just by the picture.
 

Surreybirder

Ken Noble
brianhstone said:
I'd have called that The Rustic: Slightly glossy look, lacking a clear dark band, inner part of hindwing clearly not fuscous, but I can see why he was cautious about going just by the picture.
Thanks, Brian. I had it down as a possible rustic. I've now added a few more photos to my previous post... just to keep you awake ;)
Ken
 

Brian Stone

A Stone chatting
Well I never put any of mine to species without a look at the hindwing. I am amazed he will accept some of these on just the forewing but not the other one where you have exposed the hindwing.
 

Surreybirder

Ken Noble
brianhstone said:
Well I never put any of mine to species without a look at the hindwing. I am amazed he will accept some of these on just the forewing but not the other one where you have exposed the hindwing.
Perhaps I need to send him a couple of bodies!
Ken
 

Angus T

Well-known member
I don't have picture to hand, but one that throws many people off is Carcina quercana. Its a fairly distinctive micro that looks like a tortrix species, except it's not! I'm getting a few to light these days.

So worth looking it up. It has fairly long antennae as well.
 

Surreybirder

Ken Noble
http://ukmoths.org.uk/showzoom.php?id=468
Thanks, Angus.
Another trap for the unwary is the no. of caddis flies that look quite moth-like. I believe that the main difference is that they have hairs rather than scales though this is hard to see. They often have long forward-pointing antennae. Perhaps someone has some pictures?
Ken
 
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Andrew

wibble wibble
For identification purposes when I measure the forewing for cross-checking in Waring et al, exactly what am I measuring on the forewing? Is it the leading edge down to the wing tip?
 

Surreybirder

Ken Noble
Andrew said:
For identification purposes when I measure the forewing for cross-checking in Waring et al, exactly what am I measuring on the forewing? Is it the leading edge down to the wing tip?
Page 6 of Waring gives a definition. It's the length of the costa (leading edge) from wing-tip to where it joins the thorax.
Ken
 

Andrew

wibble wibble
Thanks Ken, I should read the stuff in Waring! Will do when I have finished my current book.
 

Reader

Well-known member
Angus T said:
I don't have picture to hand, but one that throws many people off is Carcina quercana. Its a fairly distinctive micro that looks like a tortrix species, except it's not! I'm getting a few to light these days.

So worth looking it up. It has fairly long antennae as well.

hi Angus

There was one moth I found in August 2003 that was ID'd by either Ian Kimber or someone on BF as an Carcina quercana and I have attached it. Do you think the original ID was right?

I wasn't into mothing at all then it's just that it was found in our Kitchen in Leamington Spa.
 

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Brian Stone

A Stone chatting
Bloody hell, I wouldn't question an ID by Ian K.! And especially not on a distinctive and attractive little micro like C. quercana. ;)
 

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