-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Iduna Warbler, Jersey (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter DMW
- Start date
John Cantelo
Well-known member
My reaction was 'Olivaceous Warbler' and the pale panel suggests Eastern Olivaceous. Were there any behavioural traits that might help?
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Mine too but the pale, wing edges and large, long tailed appearance, remind me of Olive Tree....?
DMW
Well-known member
Thanks for the comment, John. EOW is one of the leading contenders here. The bird was first seen feeding very low in a row of small tamarisks, and moved to a taller row, where it was typically feeding at head height. It did "wag" it's tail quite frequently, but otherwise I don't think I can add much.
I'm hoping to post a second set of photos once I have permission to do so. These give some useful different angles.
John Cantelo
Well-known member
Olive-tree Warbler occurred to me too as a possibility but I've no experience of the species so hesitated to comment on the possibility. I imagine they look heftier & more robust. Tail wagging seems to suggest Eastern rather than Western Olivaceous.
DMW
Well-known member
That would be nice! I should say that in the field the bird appeared quite small, somewhat larger than Chiffchaff. Worth noting that it is extremely abraded.
KenM
Well-known member
I’ve never seen Olive-Tree Warbler, but would echo Chris and perhaps suggest that the bill is not robust enough for the aforementioned OTW.
Now looking at the new images, the cosmetic IMO looks better for EOW, having to assume that the pale edges to the secondaries is not unknown for EOW.
Cheers
Now looking at the new images, the cosmetic IMO looks better for EOW, having to assume that the pale edges to the secondaries is not unknown for EOW.
Cheers
Agree with EOW. Pallid grey-brown upperparts with contrasting darker primaries and tertial centres, very white underparts, tail also rather dark, long, strong bill with clean yellow-orange lower mandible but dark ridge on upper, long P1. Pale edges to the secondaries are not unusual in this species.
CARERY
Well-known member
A very legitimate question! I did not consider Sykes's because it seemed to be so grey. But given the second set of pics and the bright sunshine, colours seem to be difficult to judge. Sykes's is not supposed to show a pale wing panel and usually has a dark smudge at the tip of the lower mandible. But how solid is that? The fact that it is moulting and shows two feather generations complicates the matter. I'm not even sure about the age. At first I thought it's obviously a moulting adult but then, why the very loose, juvenile-like structure of the body feathers? Info about moult I could find is confusing and seems to work with some assumptions, esp. in Sykes's. But it seems in SW as in EOW both age classes might be in active moult now. I'm not sure anymore whether it's a Sykes's or a Eastern Olivaceous Warbler.
Was the tail movement more a Chiffchaff-like downward dipping or just a flicking? Any vocalisations recorded?
Grahame Walbridge
Well-known member
A very tricky bird indeed, clearly either EOW or Sykes's, it brings to mind a very similar situation involving the Seafield Iduna in Shetland in October 1993 which turned out to be a Sykes's which, consequently led to the re-identication of an 'EOW' on Cape Clear in October 1990 see here- https://britishbirds.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/article_files/V102/V102_N11/V102_N11_20_24.pdf
My initial impression following the 1st post suggested EOW but now I am far less certain. The absence of a dark distal smudge to the lower mandible is not an issue, it can be absent in Sykes's, indeed, even Booted (rarely) shows an unmarked lower mandible such is the range of variation/overlap. There is quite a bit of feather loss around the bill base which is accentuating the bill size thus adding to the EOW impression, but note, there is large degree of overlap in bill biometrics between the the 2 species.
Like Roland, I would not like to age the bird with any degree of certainty from these images and regarding specific ID, I too would not like to make a firm call either way!
Hopefully, the bird is still present today and a faecal sample can be obtained and/or a recording of it's vocalisations.
Grahame
My initial impression following the 1st post suggested EOW but now I am far less certain. The absence of a dark distal smudge to the lower mandible is not an issue, it can be absent in Sykes's, indeed, even Booted (rarely) shows an unmarked lower mandible such is the range of variation/overlap. There is quite a bit of feather loss around the bill base which is accentuating the bill size thus adding to the EOW impression, but note, there is large degree of overlap in bill biometrics between the the 2 species.
Like Roland, I would not like to age the bird with any degree of certainty from these images and regarding specific ID, I too would not like to make a firm call either way!
Hopefully, the bird is still present today and a faecal sample can be obtained and/or a recording of it's vocalisations.
Grahame
Last edited:
CARERY
Well-known member
Me again... unfortunately I've no access to the Birding World paper from Svensson (2001) but I found the citation that the emarginations in EOW should fall at level with the tips of the secondaries whereas in Sykes's they fall well short of that. According to that IMO in this bird the emarginations would favour Sykes's then, no?
KenM
Well-known member
Appears to be emarginated on p3, 4 and 5, with only p5 almost in alignment with the secondaries, 3 and 4 being well back up the wing. Thus the emarginations may well be the key?
Cheers
I'm glad that someone with your experience and ability has voiced this, and DMW for asking the question initially also, because, while I wasn't necessarily sure enough one way or another to comment, something about the facial pattern and, particularly, the plain tertials brought Sykes's Warbler to mind as an option if nothing else. While it could well be an Eastern Olivaceous Warbler, I felt that Sykes's was ruled out with haste.
tittletattler
Well-known member
I think the dark tail feathers as well as the contrast in the flight feathers rule out Syke's.
DMW
Well-known member
Once again thanks to all for the comments. Unfortunately we haven't been able to relocate the bird today, and the weather has taken a turn for the worse.
I would make a couple of observations about the photographs. Although it's subjective, I think the first set of photos is not entirely representative of what I saw in the field in that they are suggestive of a rather large, bulky large-billed grey bird. In this regard, I think the second set of photos are more faithful in terms of structure, with photo 1, 2 and 4 perhaps the most representative.
To me, this was a smallish Warbler (closer to Chiffchaff than Reed), not notably bulky, gave a somewhat long-tailed impression, and did not have a conspicuously long bill. I would also say there is perhaps a slight warm reddish cast to the second set of images, and that in life the bird appeared a shade greyer.
I did observe the bird depressing it's tail at times in the manner of a Chiffchaff, the movement perhaps more exaggerated than Chiff.
The bird was frustratingly silent. I did not hear it call at all. Another birder did hear it call briefly; I initially thought he said it sounded similar to the recording of Sykes's, but in fact he said that it didn't sound like the "iPod click" call, but had a different quality.
I would make a couple of observations about the photographs. Although it's subjective, I think the first set of photos is not entirely representative of what I saw in the field in that they are suggestive of a rather large, bulky large-billed grey bird. In this regard, I think the second set of photos are more faithful in terms of structure, with photo 1, 2 and 4 perhaps the most representative.
To me, this was a smallish Warbler (closer to Chiffchaff than Reed), not notably bulky, gave a somewhat long-tailed impression, and did not have a conspicuously long bill. I would also say there is perhaps a slight warm reddish cast to the second set of images, and that in life the bird appeared a shade greyer.
I did observe the bird depressing it's tail at times in the manner of a Chiffchaff, the movement perhaps more exaggerated than Chiff.
The bird was frustratingly silent. I did not hear it call at all. Another birder did hear it call briefly; I initially thought he said it sounded similar to the recording of Sykes's, but in fact he said that it didn't sound like the "iPod click" call, but had a different quality.
