In search of a first scope (2 Viewers)

[Woen]

Hi and goodday,

This year I'm planning on getting my first scope. And the market is quite overwhelming.
First of all I need to test a lot of scopes to determine the size and diameter of the scope.
Secondhand is also a viable option.

Biggest reason is to be able to ID a bird that's just to far out for my binoculars. And it seems to be happening more often since I've got a better binocular that picks up birds in the distance I'd normally missed. So the cheapest option would be selling that bin and buying a cheaper one haha...

Until now (just to give an idea) I've been thinking about setting a budget of +/- 1500 euro's.

These scopes are the ones I've been looking into (but not looking through them):

• Vortex Razor HD scopes (65 or 85mm)
• Nikon EDG 65-A (great deal atm that will get me a new one with a eyepiece for around 1250 euro)
• Swarovski ATS 65 or 85 HD (second hand probably)
• One of the smaller 50 mm spotting scopes like the Nikon ED50 or the Vortex Razor HD 11-33×50
• Leica or Zeiss but I can't really figure out which ones
• Something completly different because the are all the brands I know. The must be a Kowa alternative somwhere in here for instance.

So my question is, what would be a good setup to check out in real live? Like what different types of scopes should I compare first? And then which brands or models?
For me it is quite easy to check out the ones mentioned but also brands like Opticron, Meopta and Kowa. I just want to start out with some kind of short list.
And a short list can also be a type of scope kinda list before venturing into brands and/or models.

Thank you for any tips and advice on this matter.

 

[Richard D]

I would focus on size before brand.

Do you drive to birding spots? How far do you walk? Seawatching or inland? How much weight do you mind carrying? Mainly day time or early morning/evenings?

 

[Woen]

I would focus on size before brand.

Do you drive to birding spots? How far do you walk? Seawatching or inland? How much weight do you mind carrying? Mainly day time or early morning/evenings?

I mainly walk to birding spots or will be hiking or biking. I do not mind carrying gear since I will carry a few liters of water anyway. Mostly inland and daytime plus early evening. Also meaning to use the scope for wildlife viewing (depends on the location but dear, wild boar, bear, wolf etc.).

 

[Richard D]

If you're hiking or biking I wouldn't go above 65mm - it's not just the weight of the scope you need to consider - an 80/90mm scope will need a big and heavy tripod. 50mm scopes are good for hiking, but you're limited to relatively low magnifications if you want to use one into the evening.

 

[Woen]

If you're hiking or biking I wouldn't go above 65mm - it's not just the weight of the scope you need to consider - an 80/90mm scope will need a big and heavy tripod. 50mm scopes are good for hiking, but you're limited to relatively low magnifications if you want to use one into the evening.

Solid advice, thank you.

 

[Richard D]

Solid advice, thank you.

I've got three scopes - a very old Optolyth 80mm one I hardly use, a Nikon ED50 - used for longer walks, and a Nikon Fieldscope EDIII (60mm) which is by far my most used scope - it's not the latest, greatest or lightest but optically it's still very good and I've not felt the need to upgrade - you could easily get one in excellent condition used with a zoom eyepiece, a fixed wide eyepiece and a reasonable tripod well within your budget (make sure it's the ED version though). I'm sure someone else will be along with views on current offerings.

 

[MiddleRiver]

Be sure to look at Kowa as well.

 

[Woen]

Moved to a seaside area: Need to get a spotting scope has a lot of solid advice. I really didn't notice this one. Like the intro in that topic I know it might be a tiring question. Had some troubles finding topics that already answers (part of) my questions. What a great forum this is!

 

[mookbav]

Hi Woen,

What did you buy in the end?
And where?
I am looking for good shops for scopes in Belgium (or the Netherlands).

tx
Mook

 

[LucaPCP]

Hi and goodday,

This year I'm planning on getting my first scope. And the market is quite overwhelming.
First of all I need to test a lot of scopes to determine the size and diameter of the scope.
Secondhand is also a viable option.

Biggest reason is to be able to ID a bird that's just to far out for my binoculars. And it seems to be happening more often since I've got a better binocular that picks up birds in the distance I'd normally missed. So the cheapest option would be selling that bin and buying a cheaper one haha...

Until now (just to give an idea) I've been thinking about setting a budget of +/- 1500 euro's.

These scopes are the ones I've been looking into (but not looking through them):

• Vortex Razor HD scopes (65 or 85mm)
• Nikon EDG 65-A (great deal atm that will get me a new one with a eyepiece for around 1250 euro)
• Swarovski ATS 65 or 85 HD (second hand probably)
• One of the smaller 50 mm spotting scopes like the Nikon ED50 or the Vortex Razor HD 11-33×50
• Leica or Zeiss but I can't really figure out which ones
• Something completly different because the are all the brands I know. The must be a Kowa alternative somwhere in here for instance.

So my question is, what would be a good setup to check out in real live? Like what different types of scopes should I compare first? And then which brands or models?
For me it is quite easy to check out the ones mentioned but also brands like Opticron, Meopta and Kowa. I just want to start out with some kind of short list.
And a short list can also be a type of scope kinda list before venturing into brands and/or models.

Thank you for any tips and advice on this matter.

I was in your position and I got an Opticron MM4 60, with SDL v3 15-45 eyepiece. I thought it was a way to get a good scope for a reasonable price, and I would have time later to decide whether I wanted to get a Zeiss/Leica/Swarovski. Now I love the Opticron so much that I am not considering getting any other scope. Light, super sharp (typically air turbulence is the limiting factor), very practical. I could not be happier.

 

[jring]

Hi Mook,

as for where to buy - we have two very knowledgeable dutch members on here who are affiliated with House of Outdoors, Jan van Daalen (owner iirc) and Gijs van Ginkel (Researcher, who does write very profound reviews on their website). So that comes recommended - if it is not too far away...

https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/

As for what to buy we really need some more data like use case, budget and eventual preferences...

Joachim

 

[Woen]

Hi Woen,

What did you buy in the end?
And where?
I am looking for good shops for scopes in Belgium (or the Netherlands).

tx
Mook

And in Budel you can find Foto Rooijmans which is also a very good place to test, ask questions about or buy scopes. A good second hand section as well, always changing ofcourse.
At the moment I have a older Leica Apo Televid 77 with the 32 eyepiece and no time found to test it. So if it stays like this I will eventually sell it because of lack of use.

 

[Owene]

I was in your position and I got an Opticron MM4 60, with SDL v3 15-45 eyepiece. I thought it was a way to get a good scope for a reasonable price, and I would have time later to decide whether I wanted to get a Zeiss/Leica/Swarovski. Now I love the Opticron so much that I am not considering getting any other scope. Light, super sharp (typically air turbulence is the limiting factor), very practical. I could not be happier.

I had the mm3 before I traded it (and a bigger opticron) in towards a swaro. While the swaro is objectively much much better the sheer portability of the mm3 meant I took it and a smaller tripod out far more often than I currently do.

You’re right that steadiness is the main thing with it but that goes for bigger scopes too and you can comfortably sit or lie down with the mm range very easily

 

[mookbav]

Hi Mook,

as for where to buy - we have two very knowledgeable dutch members on here who are affiliated with House of Outdoors, Jan van Daalen (owner iirc) and Gijs van Ginkel (Researcher, who does write very profound reviews on their website). So that comes recommended - if it is not too far away...

https://www.houseofoutdoor.com/

As for what to buy we really need some more data like use case, budget and eventual preferences...

Joachim

Hi Joachim,

Thanks for the suggestion. housofoutdoor is rather far (5 hours round trip), but who knows. Will try to visit Foto Rooijmans Budel, uw verrekijker winkel voor Swarovski, Leica & Zeiss

As for budget and preferences, I posted a question in the wrong folder:

Advice for first spotting scope (+ tripod)

Hi all, I would like to buy my first spotting scope and am looking for some advice. Found the advice in this post very useful: Moved to a seaside area: Need to get a spotting scope We like to hike now and then and usually take one pair of cheap binos with us. Been to birding places...

www.birdforum.net

It's mainly between the Vortex Razor 65 (1000 euro) and the Kowa TSN-663M (1300 euro).
The Razor has better looks, but the Kowa might have better digiscoping options?

Will also look at the Opticron MM4 60 now.

Mook

 

[LucaPCP]

My Opticron MM4 60 is about 1 Kg for reference. I use it with two tripods, to give you an idea of the options.

One is an old but great Gitzo 224 that weighs... 2 Kg? https://www.keh.com/shop/tripods-gi...trial-performance-25-73-75-3-sect-718427.html
I use it with two sections extended, plus the central column to adapt to terrain. Very sturdy, very practical, I can walk a few Km with the tripod slung over my shoulder, but I would not take long hikes that way.

Another is a super light Velbon, 1 Kg, with a small tripod head that's also light. It's not great, vibrates a bit, but the Velbon plus the scope both fit in my backpack and I can hike long distances that way.

I use the heavy G224 more. More typically, I take the scope for dedicated birding when I don't walk all that much, and when I hike, I go with binoculars only.

If you are looking for the lightest thing you can carry hiking, I highly recommend the Kowa TSN 501. It's very cheap ($350?), super light, super small, still 50mm, and the optical quality is very decent. I often carry it in air travel, along with a mini tripod. I saw Kestrels in NYC with it, identified gulls in Poland, etc etc... very practical for IDs. But not great for dedicated birding.

 

[Hermann]

I use it with two tripods, to give you an idea of the options.

One is an old but great Gitzo 224 that weighs... 2 Kg? https://www.keh.com/shop/tripods-gi...trial-performance-25-73-75-3-sect-718427.html
I use it with two sections extended, plus the central column to adapt to terrain. Very sturdy, very practical, I can walk a few Km with the tripod slung over my shoulder, but I would not take long hikes that way.

The Gitzo 224 is an excellent tripod. I've got several old aluminium Gitzos, including a 224. Basically indestructible and sturdy enough for scopes up to ~2 kg, provided you use a decent video head. Works well even in (reasonably) windy conditions.

If you are looking for the lightest thing you can carry hiking, I highly recommend the Kowa TSN 501. It's very cheap ($350?), super light, super small, still 50mm, and the optical quality is very decent. I often carry it in air travel, along with a mini tripod. I saw Kestrels in NYC with it, identified gulls in Poland, etc etc... very practical for IDs. But not great for dedicated birding.

That's a fair assessment of the capabilities of the small Kowa. One should mention that it doesn't work all that well if you wear glasses.

Hermann