Incorrect collimation, incorrect alignment – very important to correct this ones? (1 Viewer)

[Ted Y.]

I was offered to try a 7x50 porro binocular, just to have an idea what is this, 7x50.

Because I am now a warned user, I found a barrel was looking down, or maybe the other one was oriented up.
Is this a major problem for the user? For the image?
Same for the incorrect collimation.

 

[Binastro]

Yes.

B.

 

[PYRTLE]

Very much so.

 

[Pinewood]

Hello,

Yes, you described a binocular out of collimation.

Stay safe,
Arthur Pinewood

 

[WJC]

Hello,

Yes, you described a binocular out of collimation.

Stay safe,
Arthur Pinewood

And we know a couple of books that would tell him all about it ... right!

 

[Ted Y.]

Yes, you described a binocular out of collimation.

Collimation and alignment are two words for the same action?

 

[Ted Y.]

And we know a couple of books

As I understand, for a binocular, "collimation" is about the parallelism of the optical axes of the oculars and the axis of the hinge.

But a microscope also can need collimation. One ocular, no hinge.

A “collimation” can be needed also for one ocular of a binocular?

 

[Pinewood]

Collimation and alignment are two words for the same action?

Hello Ted,

The proper process is known as collimation, which you understand. Aside from service for new binoculars, this is not a cheap process. There is also "provisional collimation," as defined by WJC: setting the binocular for a single user, or better to say for a single inter-pupillary distance.

Stay safe,
Arthur

 

[Ted Y.]

There is also "provisional collimation," as defined by WJC: setting the binocular for a single user, or better to say for a single inter-pupillary distance.

Meaning: when I buy a binocular, is better to verify the collimation ASAP and to ask at least another person (different IPD) to do the same verification.

Good to know. Thank you, Arthur.

 

[PYRTLE]

Now you enter the world of choosing a binocular or adjusting a binocular to suit you. And the dilemma of how much to pay for one!

Back to the start......why were you offered a 7 x 50 to try, for marine use, astronomy or general? Obviously that unit is faulty so you perhaps need to try others...... start again with a fresh and "good" pair. Please try to get to a retailers outlet to try out and set up a few pairs for you to test out. Keep it simple, do some research but avoid overloading yourself with technical jargon.

Good luck.

Edit: I see elsewhere you have purchased some Nikon MHG, so I presume your original question is a generic one.

 

[Ted Y.]

Now you enter the world of choosing a binocular or adjusting a binocular to suit you. And the dilemma of how much to pay for one!

Nope, I returned the binocular.

why were you offered a 7 x 50 to try, for marine use, astronomy or general?

For general use.

 

[WJC]

Hello Ted,

The proper process is known as collimation, which you understand. Aside from service for new binoculars, this is not a cheap process. There is also "provisional collimation," as defined by WJC: setting the binocular for a single user, or better to say for a single inter-pupillary distance.

Stay safe,
Arthur

Arthur,

I can certainly see where you might use the term, “provisional collimation.” And to those who really understand the task, that CAN mean exactly the same thing. The term I coined in 1976, and which has served the binocular community and me well, is “Conditional Alignment.” “Conditional” refers more directly to the observer’s physiological CONDITION relative to his or her SPATIAL ACCOMMODATION! I hope you will agree that sticking with the original term, precludes several misunderstandings that can send the newbie down unproductive paths. If you don’t believe that, you are free to beat me. I’m an old stroke victim, so the task will be easy.

Some have said that collimation and alignment mean the same thing. Well ... close but no “C”igar. People have come to Captain’s claiming their binocular was “perfectly aligned,” when, in fact, the collimator showed a deviation of an astounding TWO DEGREES! The attached graphic shows a much worse situation in a “perfectly aligned” binocular. And as long as there are people who refuse to accept the science or who lack the capacity to do so, it will always be.

In any degree of alignment (conditional alignment), the INDIVIDUAL’S spatial accommodation horns into the process and a degree of error in collimation that might be unnoticed by one observer might be totally unacceptable to another (page 94 in my first bino book).

In 3-Axis collimation, the whole process involves the opto-mechanics of the binocular and takes the physiological human condition out of the task.

Finally, it has been pointed out that each “barrel”—telescope—must be aligned, too. That is 100% accurate. However, it’s a simple task the need not be complicated. I have repaired, restored, and/or collimated over 12,000 binos, and can count ON ONE HAND—with fingers left—the times when that was a noticeable issue. There have been folks on BirdForum and Cloudy Nights who have tried to make a religion out of the concept by producing all sorts of charts and drawings. but:

“No amount of evidence will ever persuade an idiot!” — Mark Twain (attributed)

“... Especially those with no experience or credentials who want to be seen as an optics expert.” — Me

Ex-Spurt = Has been ... a drip under pressure.

 

[WJC]

220114 Hi, Ted,

You may agree this is NONE of my business, but I see, under the “other” title for this group of threads that you have started 4, all relating to collimation. And since they all relate to the same thing, it would probably more efficient, and less confusing, if you were to use more of a focused approach and just pick one thread so as to keep the thoughts in the order of creation.

Below this snippet, is a letter I just wrote ZZZZZZ on the main body. It might be of some benefit to you.

“zzzzzz said:

Is the tech Ian Xu aka Ivansky on the cloudnights forum? [email protected]

"Mr.Fix-it a pure magician"

William J Cook is now retired. His state of the art equipment is now owned by Ian Xu who is known as "Ivansky". You can find Ivan's posts right here on CN occasionally. He does a superb job repairing binoculars."

I don’t know who Ian Xu is and I didn't sell him my collimator. But I do know my, “state of the art” equipment was NEVER “state of the art” even when it WAS state of the art. It’s basically an f/4 reflector telescope ... backwards—with a full-aperture reticle at the focus! I do know the 7-inch model had an aspheric objective. (I have one of those, too.) The 10-inch model had an objective of 2 convex-plano (plate glass) lenses. That’s all that was needed; don’t start stacking BBs on me, here. The US NAVY came up with the technology out of the need just prior to WWII, probably at the California Academy of Science on the peninsula across from Alameda. Before the Mk5, the Navy was using the Brit idea of the Mark I, which ALWAYS was dependent on the tech’s spatial accommodation and which the British Army considered outmoded as early as 1941.

I also know Orion has a copper clad version that I once owned and sold them as well as the copper-clad version I sold to Mike Rivkin of Deutsch Optik which now is owned by Kevin Busarow of Oberwerk.

Cory and I spent over 10 years trying to tell him he needed a Collimator. But, each time, he came back with how he didn’t need a collimator because he could, “Eyeball collimation to 100 power.” I had not coined “spatial accommodation” at that time, but we both understood the concept and knew he was very wrong, especially since he was advertising all his binoculars as being “perfectly” collimated.

Kevin was friend, then. I consider him a friend, now. But I must admit I was not impressed when his Oberwerk created 2 video tapes to say, “conditional alignment” was a myth! Profiteering off the propagation of BAD SCIENCE?! Shame on him. I am certain he didn’t do it intentionally; he just didn’t understand the physiology of spatial accommodation. It was one of the two reasons why I said:

“There’s a big difference between 20 years’ experience and 1 year of experience 20 times.”

Fortunately, Kevin attended one of Cory’s binocular collimation seminars. He now owns a collimator, has been taught how to use it, and understands spatial accommodation.

Attached: Photo of Cory and me at Captain’s, the Mark I Brit collimator attachment, 10-inch Mk5 reticle, and me at the bore of my Mk5.

 

[Ted Y.]

You may agree this is NONE of my business, but I see, under the “other” title for this group of threads that you have started 4, all relating to collimation.

I can count 2 threads having as subject collimation, each for a different aspect, or point of view.

Is evidently not a popular subject and I want to say ‘thank you’ to contributors to both threads.