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INDIGENOUS Communities ARE Better At Preserving Biodiversity, Research Shows (1 Viewer)

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
That's an erroneous view through a Colonial lens.
The reality was a sophisticated system of Governance, Law and Civilization, and Sustainability. A rather inconvenient truth as you'll see by the documented revelations in the "Dark Emu" thread.
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=364276

Did you read the article I posted on law (post#39) ? Here's the link again:
https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article...6aZsFTjby9-YTeCYzlR1hHB2CQb9AYBkxegUeczMig-lU

The concepts of 'War', 'Genocide', 'Invasion', and 'Possession' were completely foreign to Aboriginals.
Killing in the name of God was particularly unknown - only a Colonial mindset could justify that. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?st...6140&id=175716459215409&fs=0&focus_composer=0

Therein lays the crux of the differences:-

A collectivist (bound by common spirituality), peaceful civilization living sustainably in harmony with the land inextricably linked as an inherent part of spirituality, and,

Conversely, civilizations that are founded on ownership, conquest, and exploitation of the environment in service of a capitalist system (or the benefits conferred therein) - one that justifies genocide in the name of God.

It's this very thinking that has brought us the fires in the Amazon.
With the unending war being waged against each other and the earth you'd have to ask - how's that working out for everybody? :cat:




Chosun :gh:
 
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dantheman

Bah humbug
Bizarrely, but relevant to this thread perhaps there was an item on Radio 4 first thing this morning saying that essentially most societies have co-existed peacefully most of the time, but historians tend to focus on the warring side. eg mixed religions for centuries in eg Palmyra, Syria coexisting peacefully and toleratantly.
 

Sangahyando

Well-known member
Bizarrely, but relevant to this thread perhaps there was an item on Radio 4 first thing this morning saying that essentially most societies have co-existed peacefully most of the time, but historians tend to focus on the warring side. eg mixed religions for centuries in eg Palmyra, Syria coexisting peacefully and toleratantly.
Depends on how narrowly you define "peacefully"...
It might also be worth pointing out that a lot of historians focus on other things than just war and politics, it's just that those aspects of history dominate in the media, since they tend to sell better.
 

dantheman

Bah humbug
Depends on how narrowly you define "peacefully"...
It might also be worth pointing out that a lot of historians focus on other things than just war and politics, it's just that those aspects of history dominate in the media, since they tend to sell better.

Hmmm. I think it was in the context that the over-arching theme is that it is presented as everyone was always killing everyone else of a culture type that they didn't like, whereas the long periods when peace between different religious groups was the norm doesn't really get mentioned. Sorry can't be much more specific with examples (was driving at the time) and don't know how to find a link to the program.

(And yes, of course historians are interested in various different aspects of history ;-) )
 

katastrofa

Registered User
Supporter
Norway
Raiding the neighbours to kidnap their women looks awfully like war to me, even if it was part of a different belief system than ours.
 

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
Raiding the neighbours to kidnap their women looks awfully like war to me, even if it was part of a different belief system than ours.
People really need to research Aboriginal culture written by Aboriginals - ie dispelling all the unsavoury myths that were created by invaders for ulterior motives.
You don't run a civilization for over a hundred thousand years in perfect health by getting your sisters, cousins, and neighbours up the duff ! There are strict laws governing 'right skin'. This part of culture is very important, ingrained and organized into the social fabric, and quite civilized - hence the rich history of music, dance, and art, all tied to story, spirit and land which is all integral to the people themselves.
6 fingered banjo players would have been an anomaly ! :)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_Aboriginal_kinship




Chosun :gh:
 

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
Sand Talk: How Indigenous Thinking Can Save The World

".....something Aborginal culture offers.

"We’ve been through a lot of apocalypses. We have them in all our stories. There’s volcanoes. There’s massive floods. There are meteorite impacts that cause massive destruction. All of these things are in our oral history," he says.

"And in those stories there are ways of being that are really clearly described as the ways that you need to live in order to maintain a culture that can survive these things. It’s worth looking at. ...."


https://www.afr.com/life-and-luxury...gHMEWk2_BAqZcCkKC_kW1c4GJlhgb9p1KFRBO01QclK30




Chosun :gh:
 

Andy Adcock

Well-known member
England
As usual, the anti colonial theme continues and moves increasingly away from conservation.

It wouldn't be the first of threads to be removed to RF which is where it now belongs IMHO.
 

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
As usual, the anti colonial theme continues and moves increasingly away from conservation.

..... IMHO.
I disagree entirely. "anti colonial theme" is purely your interpretation and I wonder if it says more about your mindset than it does any of the content of this thread?

I thought the drawing I last posted perfectly illustrated one of the points of the thread - that of a philosophical and worldview difference leading to different management actions and societal organization. What are your thoughts on that? What did you think of the photo showing the track worn into Uluru by umpteen footprints 'conquering' the summit?

I quite like your avatar picture of the Shoebill, but I find your opinion uninformed. Right from your very first post in this thread you have displayed a lack of understanding, and I have to wonder if you have actually read through any of the informative material posted as links in this thread. Joost was even kind enough to post the original research paper in full for us. I do not understand why you seem so resistant to any learnings from the material presented.

People that are part of the land <-> Land that is part of the people.
The health of one determines the health of the other.

I have to ask - how are conservation efforts working out worldwide? Effective? Making progress? Halting the inevitable slide? Really, how is it going? Pass mark?
Give it a score out of ten.
What about space junk? What's the philosophy behind that?

I am happy to hear all points of view, but if you don't want to engage constructively, or learn anything new, then kindly leave the thread to those who do. Thanks.





Chosun :gh:
 
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PYRTLE

Old Berkshire Boy
What did you think of the photo showing the track worn into Uluru by umpteen footprints 'conquering' the summit?

Just to comment on one question you posed CJ. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of similar examples of human erosion tracks on natural formations, throughout the world. England has some such as in the Yorkshire Dales where a huge footfall occurs for the same reasons I guess....stunning view, exercise, "conquering" a wish or ambition, perhaps a lifetime dream. However, it is open for everyone though degradation is evident. It is a National Park. Inhabitants who never left their village, lie buried in the church cemeteries.
As a boy over 50 years ago I saw photos of Uluru and thoughts of seeing it, visiting Australia were fired. Sadly, never made it that far.

So, my thoughts and subsequent question, is it (Uluru) different and singularly exclusive to other similar sacred places from your perspective?

Another question arises. Would this move have occurred if it wasn't classed as an UNESCO World Heritage Site?

I dont have the answers, just keep finding more questions?

P
 

PYRTLE

Old Berkshire Boy
Was this post typical and representative of the communities? I hope not.


Marcia Langton*

@marcialangton

·

Oct 24

A curse will fall on all of them. They will remember how they defiled this sacred place until they die & history will record their contempt for Aboriginal culture
 

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
Pyrtle, people loving places of natural beauty to death has long been a problem the world over, and I think that thin end of the wedge applies everywhere too. All places are sacred ( you never know whose head you might be walking on ! :) , though I suspect whether they are viewed as such is a matter of perspective.

As far as any UNESCO World Heritage Listing goes, I'm not sure it's worth a cracker. For example the Blue Mountains National Park on the edge of Sydney will now be subject to impacts from a 24/7 International airport at Badgery's Creek which the Government (all, and both sides) has approved. This is despite the final flight paths not having been designed in detail yet. This sitiation is complete and utter bs, yet it doesn't end there. There is also a proposal to raise the Warragamba Dam wall by some 14m which will flood vast tracts of riparian flats (with threatened Cabbage Gum communities) well back into the National Park. These are also a critical resource for the threatened Regent Honeyeater. Again complete and utter bs. The supposed reason is water security for the city - but the real reason is to facilitate thousands of new residential blocks on the floodplain. Another move that can only be made by mental giants in pursuit of the almighty dollar.

So herein lays the crux of the problem. First world country, UNESCO World Heritage Areas, supposedly robust Environmental Protection and Biodiversity Conservation laws - and the whole thing is not worth a cracker ......... :storm: :-C

The rape of this country is out of control. I shudder to think what an updated bird survey over the Murray-Darling Basin would show now if the previous work showed a 70% decline, and that was before the devastating drought of the last 2 years and ongoing 'criminal' water diversions and extractions of both surface and ground water. I also shudder to think what the coming predicted hot dry summer will bring on top of millions of fish deaths last summer (including century old cod). Could an area the size of France and Germany become an extinction wasteland?

To this add mining impacts in WA, and QLD (threatening groundwater and wetland spring systems of a Great Barrier Reef catchment), along with fracking in the NT.

It is against this environmental catastrophe and ongoing issues of justice and Sovereignty that Aboriginal people view events in the country. The acknowledgement of the Anangu tribe's wishes not to climb Uluru is therefore seen as a small step in the right direction.

Professor Marcia Langton is well respected, has been immersed in Indigenous issues for decades and usually quite measured in what she says and how it is expressed - though she is a straight shooter.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marcia_Langton

I believe the comment you quoted was in response to the surge in visitors seeking to climb Uluru before it closed - particularly in the last day or two. They do seem unusually forthright - I don't know the entire exact context, but I suppose decades of frustration could lead to something like that.

Over the years there has been a widespread 'return' of rocks etc that tourists from all over the world have 'souvenired' when they find they are plagued by 'bad luck'. Literally "lessons from stone" as per the link I posted in post#39 https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article...6aZsFTjby9-YTeCYzlR1hHB2CQb9AYBkxegUeczMig-lU




Chosun :gh:
 

Chosun Juan

Given to Fly
Australia - Aboriginal
Prytle, interesting article on Rapa Nui (Easter Island) - some hypotheses attempting to explain the mysteries, modern day tourism impact, and universal lessons learned.
https://www.history101.com/orig/the...DhqekxxAVgY1GBz3Qu2iYxjhrbn5cYwI9GIlqqPfQRMEw

I remember as a kid watching re-runs of a show on Tele called "Mysteries of the Unexplained" or something like that - narrated by Leonard Nimoy (not sure if Carl Sagan also used to pop up too) - I remember being fascinated by all things mysterious including the 'Heads' of Easter Island ......
[EDIT] It was a series called "In Search of" I always remember being transfixed by Leonard Nimoy's voice
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kj8Y2sFB6Y0
...... brings back memories of watching this with my Dad and him letting me look through his books on The World's Mysteries, and The Dreamtime .....




Chosun :gh:
 
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