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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment (1 Viewer)

Yes it was, although I think the original was a bit longer. It did seem to be warning of the prospect of inter-galactic warfare. Perhaps it's more of a risk than we realised.

Its a shame the mods deleted Alice from Leeds via a galaxy far far away as I was looking forward to her exchange of views with Sushil. Hopefully the mods haven't made a terrible mistake that could spell the end for mankind.
 

MJB

Well-known member
Its a shame the mods deleted Alice from Leeds via a galaxy far far away as I was looking forward to her exchange of views with Sushil. Hopefully the mods haven't made a terrible mistake that could spell the end for mankind.

I don't think the Mods have made a mistake - they've just recognised that Alice from Leeds and Sushil are an entangled pair of fundamental particles, not only allowing action at a distance, but also showing that life is even stranger than the Higgs boson.:t:
MJB
 

sushil_yadav

Well-known member
So what do you suggest?

The solution / answer has been known for millions of years.

You save environment the way it was saved for millions of years .......For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.

Animal species destroyed environment only for food.

Hunter_Gatherer Society destroyed environment only for food.

Agrarian Society destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years because it destroyed environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

This list needs to be pruned.

You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Production of thousands of consumer goods and services must stop immediately.
 
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asburd

Member
The solution / answer has been known for millions of years.

You save environment the way it was saved for millions of years .......For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.

Animal species destroyed environment only for food.

Hunter_Gatherer Society destroyed environment only for food.

Agrarian Society destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.

Industrial Society has destroyed most of the Biodiversity and Ecosystems in just 250 years because it destroyed environment for thousands of consumer goods and services in addition to food, clothing and shelter.

This list needs to be pruned.

You cannot save environment by destroying more of it.

Production of thousands of consumer goods and services must stop immediately.
It seems like you do a lot of talking (or typing) without actually saying very much. You keep repeating phrases that I guess are meant to sound profound, but don't actually have much content.
Personally I don't see why there is anything inherent in living in cities with mass production and advanced technology (i.e. industrial society) that necessitates massive and continuous environmental destruction. I think its more the nature of the global economy that does. For example, oil spills like the Deepwater Horizon in the Gulf of Mexico (which I recently heard is still leaking) aren't natural consequences of industrial society, they are natural consequences of negligence resulting from the drive to cut costs and maximize profits regardless of what gets destroyed in the process. So I think, by turning it into an issue of 'industrial society', you are aiming at the wrong target.

But in any case, if your solution to the destruction of the environment is killing off masses of human beings and returning to some romantic hunter-gatherer existence where we live to the ripe old age of thirty, you can count me (and everyone else who isn't a misanthropic lunatic) out.
 

sushil_yadav

Well-known member
But in any case, if your solution to the destruction of the environment is killing off masses of human beings and returning to some romantic hunter-gatherer existence where we live to the ripe old age of thirty, you can count me (and everyone else who isn't a misanthropic lunatic) out.

I cannot help it if you draw wrong conclusions.....I never talked about killing masses of human beings and returning to Hunter_Gatherer stage.

For millions of years the list of things that destroyed environment never exceeded food, clothing and shelter.

Food, clothing and shelter......these are the maximum number of things this planet can provide to humans.

A pure non-industrial society is not possible now because Industrialization has increased world population to 7 billion.......World population increased from 1 billion in 1800 to 7 billion in just about 200 years after industrialization.......In the absence of industrialization world population would have been less than 2 billion today.

If we want to save the remaining environment we must minimize the things that are destroying environment.

At present we are destroying environment for Food, Clothing, Shelter plus Thousands of Industrial consumer goods and services.

We must eliminate the things that were added last to the list......which means Thousands of consumer goods and services, most of which have existed for only about 100 years out of Hundreds of Thousands of years of Total Human Existence on earth .........these have to be eliminated or minimized.

We are approaching Environmental Apocalypse.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately........Industrial Activity must be limited to food, clothing and shelter.......and even in these three fields production and consumption must be kept to the minimum.
 

fugl

Well-known member
.......The only way to save the remaining environment is by stopping Industrial Activity for production of consumer goods and services immediately.........

Not so. Reduction/stabilization of human population size is the only practical way out. What you propose would lead only to chaos & universal penury.
 
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sushil_yadav

Well-known member
Not so. Reduction/stabilization of human population size is the only practical way out. What you propose would lead only to chaos & universal penury.

The cause of Overpopulation is Industrialization.....Overpopulation is a problem because of Industrialization.

The one and only cause of environmental destruction is Industrialization.

Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are consequences / by-products of Industrialization.

Without Industrialization there would be no overpopulation and no overconsumerism.

Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen together.......Industrialization, Overpopulation and Overconsumerism happen at the same time.

It is Industrialization that has led to a population of 7 billion.....Not overbreeding.

The entire world was overbreeding before Industrialization.....The entire world is underbreeding after Industrialization.

There used to be 5 - 15 children per family all over the world before Industrialization and yet world population reached only 1 billion till 1800 AD......After Industrialization the family size reduced drastically, most families are now having 1 - 4 children and yet world population jumped from 1 billion to 7 billion in just about 200 years.

If Industrialization had not happened world population would be less than 2 billion today.

If Industrialization had not happened, High death rate would have kept population under control....Diseases caused by virus and bacteria would have kept population under control.....Feeding capacity of soil would have kept population under control....Shortage of food and water would have kept population under control.....Harsh Climatic Conditions would have kept population under control - People would not have been able to live in regions that are too hot or too cold.

If Industrialization had not happened this planet would have been in very good condition today.....There would be no overpopulation, no overconsumerism and only limited urbanization.

A Non-Industrial Society would have destroyed some ecosystems on the land [Forests] but Marine Ecology [Oceans] would have been almost 100% safe today......Forest Cover would be much greater than what it is now....Millions of species on the land and in the sea would not have been decimated and would be thriving with very healthy populations......This planet would be free of Billions of Tonnes of Metal Waste, Plastic Waste, Chemical waste, Gaseous Waste, eWaste and Nuclear Waste.....The Oceans wouldn't have become Acidic, Warmer and Oxygen Deprived because of Industrial Waste.

It is consumerism that destroys environment, Not population.

A Hunter_Gatherer Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

An Agrarian Society of 7 billion would have destroyed very little environment [compared to an Industrial Society of 7 billion]...... because it would have destroyed environment only for food, clothing and shelter.......not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

[By the way, A Hunter_Gatherer Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion......An Agrarian Society would have never reached a population of 7 billion]

Environment has been destroyed by Industrialization/ Consumerism…….Not by Population/ Overpopulation.

Total World Population has not increased ……It has decreased……In fact total world population has been decimated.

When we talk about population we should take into account population of all animal species on earth, not just human population.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of Animal Species……Increase in human population has coincided with decrease/ decimation of millions of animal species.... The total burden of population on this planet has not increased…..It has decreased.

Industrial Society has decimated millions of other species......There was a time when the combined population of other animal species was much greater than present human population.....and we don't even need to include smaller animals in this count.....The combined population of big animals alone whose size and weight was equivalent to or greater than man was much greater than current human population of 7 billion.

The amount of food this animal population was eating was much greater than the food consumed by humans today.......Yet millions of animal species did not destroy environment and lived sustainably on earth for millions of years......because they destroyed environment only for food and not for thousands of consumer goods and services.

If animals had started a consumerist "Industrial Society" millions of years ago they would have destroyed all ecosystems millions of years ago.

The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years and these efforts should / will continue in future.....so where is the problem with population?????

It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to complain about overpopulation when it itself is the cause of overpopulation......It is so ridiculous of Industrial Society to make attempts to control population while promoting Consumerism, Growth Rate, Economy Rate and GDP exponentially.
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Industrial Society Destroys Mind and Environment
 

Gill Osborne

Well-known member
Oh no, someone's dug him up again and put 10 rupees in the slot......

:-O:-O:-O:t:


Reading that last post it looks like we're all f***ed then, I guess :smoke:

UNLESS..........we all live like the Amish and abandon gadgets and go back to living off the land etc etc. Mmmmm I'd be up for that......I've always wanted a pony o:) The going to church on Sundays might be a problem tho'.....me being an atheist 'n' all that ;) And I don't think my boss would be over happy either giving me the day off.....tho' I suppose if there were no machines then there'd be no Sunday papers :king:

Sushil my dear....you might just have come up with the solution to me getting weekends off to go birding :t:
 

jmepler

It's just a flesh wound.
United States
The cause of Overpopulation is Industrialization.....Overpopulation is a problem because of Industrialization.

The one and only cause of environmental destruction is Industrialization.

Overpopulation and Overconsumerism are consequences / by-products of Industrialization.

Without Industrialization there would be no overpopulation and no overconsumerism.[/B]

So, to paraphrase, "Stop buying stuff and die young".

sushil_yadav, what are you doing personally to help stop this menace?

UNLESS..........we all live like the Amish and abandon gadgets and go back to living off the land etc etc.

Gill, many of the Amish now use cell phones, they just don't take them into theirs homes, they recharge them in the barn....we are doomed....you can still have a pony though. ;)

Mike
 

fugl

Well-known member
The entire world has been trying to control human population for 50 years ...

Not true. So far there have only been a few sporadic efforts at human population control.

Given (just for the sake of argument) that "industrialization" has "caused" over-population, there is no "logical" (to use one of your favorite words) reason to suppose that "de-industrialization" is the only cure. To my mind, the ideal society would be a highly "industrialized" one consisting of a few million people spread over the entire planet.
 
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Trystan

Well-known member
Not true. So far there have only been a few sporadic efforts at human population control.

Given (just for the sake of argument) that "industrialization" has "caused" over-population, there is no "logical" (to use one of your favorite words) reason to suppose that "de-industrialization" is the only cure. To my mind, the ideal society would be a highly "industrialized" one consisting of a few million people spread over the entire planet.

Couldn't agree more
 
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