Inexpensive straight scope suggestions (1 Viewer)

[Snett_dweller]

I’d appreciate advice on a straight scope for occaisional use. I have a caravan at RSPB Snettisham so won’t be walking far. I use Swarovski 8x32 binoculars and love them, but spoonbills tend to like the middle of the gravel pits and curlews have started coming to the beach (I.e. mudflats) and I’d like to see them closer. I have an old Hawke angled scope from my shooting days 20-60x60mm which has convinced me that angled scopes are a PITA and I fancy trying a straight scope.

I am a fair weather birder but would like a small unit to put in my backpack as we walk around Norfolk and have seen a Kowa TSN-502 for £250 and the Vortex Razor HD 11-33x50 for about £350 which seem almost impulse-buy prices. I’d like the Swarovski STC or STS65 but would like to spend a season using an inexpensive purchase first - if I get a lot of use I am happy to upgrade, if I don’t use it much then better to waste a little than a lot.

I am hoping to hand hold at low mag and use a monopod for higher mags - for the curlews I’ll have a deckchair outside my caravan, for the spoonbills I’ll generally be in one of the hides.

Do I have a ridiculously unrealistic idea of what I can achieve? I know the tripod and head need to be budgeted for on a scope purchase but the Swaro adverts for the STC show it being handheld and surely they can’t be lying to me...

I’ve often thought of getting some Canon IS binoculars but they top out at 18x and hopefully a monopod and small scope will offer me more.

I’d appreciate any input, no matter how brutal.

 

[Mike Crawley]

I presume you are open to “pre-loved”
This is at my local optics shop - who I would trust implicitly

| Focalpoint Optics

www.focalpointopticsltd.com

 

[Snett_dweller]

I presume you are open to “pre-loved”
This is at my local optics shop - who I would trust implicitly

| Focalpoint Optics

www.focalpointopticsltd.com

Thank you Mike - yes, very interested. Need to check the weight as the 2 I mentioned seem quite small which is part of their appeal.

 

[Richard D]

I found I can handhold an ED50 at 18x magnification and get okay views (good enough for id but not super stable) - much more than that there's too much shake. On a monopod maybe 24x beyond that its a tripod. I'm not sure I'd want to try and handhold a bulkier or heavier scope. You can usually pick up a new ED50 without eyepiece for about £200 on Amazon.jp, and pick up either a used fixed eyepiece or the zoom if you don't mind a narrow field for not a lot.

 

[Hermann]

I have an old Hawke angled scope from my shooting days 20-60x60mm which has convinced me that angled scopes are a PITA and I fancy trying a straight scope.

Angled scopes are a PITA? Presumably because you find finding birds too difficult? If that's the case you should try a cable tie sight first: Make your own simple sight (aiming) device for telescopes: illustrated instructions Works like a charm and costs next to nothing.

BTW, I find straight scopes are in most situations a PITA ...

Hermann

 

[jring]

Hi,

the combination of a plain glass scope with the HDF zoom as in the focal point offer is in my opinion a bit sub-optimal - the plain glass objective will start to get blurry beyond 35x or so due to longitudinal chromatic aberration and the zoom EP will still be quite narrow at that magnification and only widen up close to the maximum magnification of 48x - which will be a bit blurry...

If you want to go very cheap, Cleyspy has a similar Opticron plain glass scope with a 28x wide EP for 90 quid... the average condition and slight internal dust are probably the reason for the price...

Opticron HR66 - 11331 | Buy Online at CleySpy

The quality Opticron HR66 - 11331 is available from CleySpy with a wide range of accessories (other filter)- buy online at fantastic prices

www.cleyspy.co.uk

Also a little bit of misting in this Nikon ED 78 with 38x wide EP... that might be all you ever want at 299 quid... and this one will be able to deliver a crisp image at 60x if you get a zoom EP later...

Nikon ED 78 - 12060 | Buy Online at CleySpy

The quality Nikon ED 78 - 12060 is available from CleySpy with a wide range of accessories (other filter)- buy online at fantastic prices

www.cleyspy.co.uk

Joachim, who agrees with Hermann (and many other birders) about straight scopes being a pita - but to each his own...

 

[Hermann]

I am hoping to hand hold at low mag and use a monopod for higher mags - for the curlews I’ll have a deckchair outside my caravan, for the spoonbills I’ll generally be in one of the hides.

Do I have a ridiculously unrealistic idea of what I can achieve? I know the tripod and head need to be budgeted for on a scope purchase but the Swaro adverts for the STC show it being handheld and surely they can’t be lying to me...

To be brutally honest: Yes, the Swarovski adverts are lying to you (and everyone else for that matter). Check the posts in the ATC thread, especially those by Dyrlege.

Hermann

 

[Richard D]

To be brutally honest: Yes, the Swarovski adverts are lying to you (and everyone else for that matter). Check the posts in the ATC thread, especially those by Dyrlege.

Hermann

I think setting unreasonable expectations rather outright lying - Drylege found it usable at lowest magnification handheld but not beyond that. I think that's going to be true of any compact scope. For a quick id, rather than a comfortable view 17-18x is usable if you've got fairly steady hands... Distance also plays a part - at relatively close distances that magnification isn't too bad, but the further away the bird the more the shake becomes a barrier. Viewing from a hide with elbows on a bench obviously helps, and sometimes you can find a handy fence post (although there an angled scope is better).

 

[Snett_dweller]

Thank you all for the replies. I was going to add a wink at the end of my Swarovski advert comment (@Hermann I am part-way through the ATC thread) but was hoping I could hand-hold the lower end of the mag spec. I used to be a pistol shooter so moderately steady hands.

@Hermann again, yes, I found that angled scopes were very hard to find a bird with. my gut feel is a straight scope would be easier to track onto a bird - works for binoculars after all - hence my thought to try a straight scope for a season and see how I felt.

i have rarely seen a straight scope being used so appreciate I am bucking the trend, but it means I can’t borrow one to see why no-one else likes them!

 

[dwatsonbirder]

This looks like a good buy for your needs - you can always upgrade the eyepiece later too.

 

[GreenRooky]

I use an angled MM3ED50 like the one above and that's a great price, not the best eye piece but will give you a good idea of if it works for you and you shouldn't lose any money on resale if it doesn't. The HDFT is the obvious zoom eye piece upgrade and you can find that for around £100 second hand fairly often

 

[StephenL]

Hi,

With regards to the one linked in the dwatsonbirder post I used to own it so if you wanted any further info let me know.

Cheers

 

[wllmspd]

An advantage of angled scopes is you can use shorted and thus more stable tripods. I agree that finding stuff can sometimes be a pain.
Peter

 

[Snett_dweller]

An advantage of angled scopes is you can use shorted and thus more stable tripods. I agree that finding stuff can sometimes be a pain.
Peter

That probably explains it. I am hoping that sticking to a low enough mag will allow hand holding/bracing to work much of the time. For the spoonbills getting ”twice as close” as my 8x32 would probably be enough - they are in middle of a gravel pit so not too far away - so really the large Swarovski SLC would do but I am looking for an inexpensive option.

 

[jring]

Hi,

shorter tripods are one advantage of angled scopes, the other is that you can easily use an angled scope that is a bit too low by bending down, which is next to impossible with a straight one... That makes sharing the view in a group a lot easier...

Aiming an angled scope with the cable tie trick makes it very easy - you use the upper edge of the EP as the rear sight and the cable tie as the grain - with some practice this allows for finding a bird with binoculars and then get it into the scopes field of view on the first try.

I have several straight scopes scopes and I can assure you that when hand-holding at 20x without bracing the instrument to a tree or wall, it is next to impossible to get a steady view.

Joachim, who would recommend a well priced used scope with a fixed wide angle ep from 20-30x magnification and an adequate tripod setup for starters...

 

[wllmspd]

I got a cheap 127mm Maksutov recently and it’s limited to only high powers, I added a cheap red dot finder with a prism to allow for angles use. Drops me on target very quickly. Everyone has their own preferences and requirements.

Peter

 

[Peregrine Took]

@Hermann again, yes, I found that angled scopes were very hard to find a bird with. my gut feel is a straight scope would be easier to track onto a bird - works for binoculars after all - hence my thought to try a straight scope for a season and see how I felt.

You find angled scopes (metaphorically, I very much hope) a PITA. Well a straight one will be a pain in the neck... literally.

Sounds like your experience as a shooter is influencing how you think you might use a scope to watch birds. I don't know about how others use their scopes, but I rarely use mine to lock onto birds already in flight (other than gliders, like kites, or harriers and buzzards, or high altitude falcons) - that's what I use my bins for. If a static bird (you mentioned a couple of waders) then takes flight, I don't see how an angled scope will be any worse than a straight one for tracking it and keeping it in sight... that's probably more a function of magnification and field of view than the orientation of the scope.

But on the basis that tracking birds in flight is what you want to do, I would very much choose a scope with a fairly wide / low starting magnification zoom eyepiece, which is why I would avoid the Kowa (20-40x) and go for a 50mm Opticron MM3 or MM4 (15-45x). Usually a few good used ones on 'the auction site'.
.

 

[Snett_dweller]

You find angled scopes (metaphorically, I very much hope) a PITA. Well a straight one will be a pain in the neck... literally.

Sounds like your experience as a shooter is influencing how you think you might use a scope to watch birds. I don't know about how others use their scopes, but I rarely use mine to lock onto birds already in flight (other than gliders, like kites, or harriers and buzzards, or high altitude falcons) - that's what I use my bins for. If a static bird (you mentioned a couple of waders) then takes flight, I don't see how an angled scope will be any worse than a straight one for tracking it and keeping it in sight... that's probably more a function of magnification and field of view than the orientation of the scope.

But on the basis that tracking birds in flight is what you want to do, I would very much choose a scope with a fairly wide / low starting magnification zoom eyepiece, which is why I would avoid the Kowa (20-40x) and go for a 50mm Opticron MM3 or MM4 (15-45x). Usually a few good used ones on 'the auction site'.
.

you raise some good points and yes, my shooting background is influencing me. Most of the time I don’t imagine I’ll watch birds in flight with a scope - red kites are most likely. Snettisham does have a LOT of large flocks of knots and dunlins - it’s famous for them - and watching those with my angled scope have not worked well for me previously. I don’t need to watch them through a scope - the sensation of them flying overhead is not enhanced with any optics - but it’d be nice to be able to do it.

i’m thinking the MM3 or Razor 11-33 are the way to go, I want the low end more than the higher end, I think.

 

[asp09]

If you go for the MM3, you’ll have a choice of eyepieces. For example, this wide angle eyepiece would be 18x on an MM3 50:Used Opticron 28x HDF ( HR60/66 )
With the Razor you’ll only have the zoom. Just something to bear in mind.

 

[etudiant]

Angled scopes are readily aimed with a cable tie, but that does not make them intuitive for hand held usage, at least for me.
Aiming the scope requires sighting over the back of it, then moving the head forward and down to look into the eye piece.
It works if the bird is mostly stationary, but nowhere near as well as just pointing binoculars at it.
I've ordered a straight ED50 specifically in the hope that it will allow easier hand held observations.