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Internal reflections? (1 Viewer)

FrankD

Well-known member
So the thread on mid-price binoculars has me thinking....how difficult is it to judge internal reflections? How much do they affect performance? I quickly snapped off some pics from a variety of binoculars I have on hand. They are a mix of roofs and porros. Short of comments directed on my picture taking ability do the pics say anything about the binoculars' performance with regard to internal reflections?

Give me a bit to upload all of them before replying.
 

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NDhunter

Experienced observer
United States
Frank:

Nice effort, lots of things to see in your photos.

A site with photos of internal reflections of each binocular they review is
Allbinos.com. I have looked at some of the reviews, and some companies make a more
concerted effort to reduce these light sources.

I hope to learn more about this subject.

Jerry
 

FrankD

Well-known member
Thank you Jerry.

I do as well which is why I posted this. Hopefully it prompts some thoughtful discussion.
 

SuperDuty

Well-known member
The SV series has a lot or internal reflections, are they a result of a more straight through design ? It's all about tradeoffs I suppose.
 

FrankD

Well-known member
I don't have an answer for you SD. However, if you are able to take a pic of yours in the same fashion as I did then maybe it will lead to further discussion.
 

NDhunter

Experienced observer
United States
The SV series has a lot or internal reflections, are they a result of a more straight through design ? It's all about tradeoffs I suppose.

The Allbinos reviews do show all of those reflections in the SV, more than
normal compared to others. They were scored lower because of that.

The Allbinos reviews show that Nikon does a very nice job in their high
end binoculars.

Nikon is a camera company, and this is normal operating procedure.
A camera lens cannot have reflections like this, and their binoculars
do not either.

Next topic, lets talk about internal blackening. I inspect every
binocular I own, there are lots of differences there among companies
also.

Jerry
 

FrankD

Well-known member
Good idea Jerry since the two issues are related. Maybe even a discussion/pics of different styles of baffling.
 

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
The Allbinos reviews do show all of those reflections in the SV, more than
normal compared to others. They were scored lower because of that.

The Allbinos reviews show that Nikon does a very nice job in their high
end binoculars.

Nikon is a camera company, and this is normal operating procedure.
A camera lens cannot have reflections like this, and their binoculars
do not either.

Next topic, lets talk about internal blackening. I inspect every
binocular I own, there are lots of differences there among companies
also.

Jerry
A lot of the Nikon's in the Allbino's reviews scored low on internal reflections. It seem that it varies more by model of binocular than brand. For example the Nikon 8x42 EDG, 8x42 HG, 8x42 M7 and even the porro's like the 8x32 SE and the EII had internal reflections which scored especially bad. The Nikon 8x32 EDG on the other hand scored good for internal reflections. Zeiss is not immune either as the 8x42 FL had quite a few internal reflections but it's smaller brother the 8x32 FL had fewer. It would make a difference on the sharpness of the binocular and it is probably something you should check when buying a binocular. You can look at the exit pupils to see if there a lot of internal reflections also. A recent Dutch Astro test of the Swarovski 10x50 SV, Fujinon 10x50 FSX, Leica 10x50 Ultravid and Pentax 10x50 ED said they could see the SV had the least internal reflections by examing the exit pupils and hence it was sharper. Something important to look for.
 

Pileatus

"Experientia Docet”
United States
The SV series has a lot or internal reflections, are they a result of a more straight through design ? It's all about tradeoffs I suppose.
How's the light supposed to get from the front end to the back end if it doesn't bounce around a bit?

PS
A solution to your CA problem is to view with the objective covers attached. I tried that a few days ago and there is definitely no chromatic aberration.B :)
 

NDhunter

Experienced observer
United States
A lot of the Nikon's in the Allbino's reviews scored low on internal reflections. It seem that it varies more by model of binocular than brand. For example the Nikon 8x42 EDG, 8x42 HG, 8x42 M7 and even the porro's like the 8x32 SE and the EII had internal reflections which scored especially bad. The Nikon 8x32 EDG on the other hand scored good for internal reflections. Zeiss is not immune either as the 8x42 FL had quite a few internal reflections but it's smaller brother the 8x32 FL had fewer. It would make a difference on the sharpness of the binocular and it is probably something you should check when buying a binocular. You can look at the exit pupils to see if there a lot of internal reflections also. A recent Dutch Astro test of the Swarovski 10x50 SV, Fujinon 10x50 FSX, Leica 10x50 Ultravid and Pentax 10x50 ED said they could see the SV had the least internal reflections by examing the exit pupils and hence it was sharper. Something important to look for.

Dennis:

You should go back and look at the scores. The EDG and HG models
were among the highest in scoring for well controlled internal reflections.

For instance here is how Allbinos scored the EDG vs. SV.

EDG 8x42 3/5.0 SV 2.2/5.5

EDG 10x42 4.4/5.0 SV 2.8/5.0

These Nikons scored very well, and I have no favorites here.

I just picked out some binoculars that I own and a close competitor.

The internal reflection numbers are only a small part of what a
binocular offers, but this is the subject at hand.

Jerry
 

FrankD

Well-known member
Jerry,

I also noticed that in the Nikon Monarch 5 review that was published today the Nikons scored a 4 out of 5 for internal reflections.
 

[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
Jerry:

Allbnos quote on the Nikon 8x42 EDG's reflection's was:

"Low. One point was deducted for weak performance against bright light. At night, when a light post is within the field of vision, you can notice distinct light artifacts. At such price point and in this quality class it shouldn’t have happened."

A score of 3.0 on the Nikon 8x42 EDG isn't that high when some binoculars are scoring 4 to 4.5.

Some of the other Nikon's were really poor especially the EII! Here are their reflection scores:

Nikon 8x42 M7 2.3 (Quite bright and you can see noticeable arches near to exit pupils.)
Nikon 8x32 SE 2.9 (A bit of flares in the area nearest to prisms)
Nikon 8x30 EII 2.0 (A lot of gleams near the exit pupils)
Nikon 8x30 M7 2.0
Nikon Prostaff 8x30 2.0 (Very distinct and visible)


So some Nikon's are pretty good with controlling reflection's and some aren't just like all binoculars. As a group they are a hodge podge.
 
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[email protected]

Well-known member
Supporter
The Allbinos reviews do show all of those reflections in the SV, more than
normal compared to others. They were scored lower because of that.

The Allbinos reviews show that Nikon does a very nice job in their high
end binoculars.

Nikon is a camera company, and this is normal operating procedure.
A camera lens cannot have reflections like this, and their binoculars
do not either.

Next topic, lets talk about internal blackening. I inspect every
binocular I own, there are lots of differences there among companies
also.

Jerry
Yes, Allbino's did score the SV low on relections but at the end of their testing they said:

"We tested this pair of binoculars with real pleasure – undoubtedly it is one of the best optical instruments we’ve ever dealt with."


Kind of makes you wonder how important reflections are doesn't it?
 

NDhunter

Experienced observer
United States
Dennis:
The models you have referenced are mostly 32MM, I was just using the main line 42mm's.
It is not fair to compare a Monarch 7 to the EDG or the other high end Nikons in several ways.

They do vary, but the EDG's scores were way better than the Swarovision.

What do you make of that ?

Are internal reflections all that important or ?

I do think many of us on here, and I am included spend too much time dabbling over binoculars.

This score does not mean much to me, as I have not seen it matter at all in what I
see when viewing.

Jerry
 
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