IS binoculars- the battery issue (1 Viewer)

[etudiant]

However, from what I hear the Zeiss 20x60S simply works. I know several people who've been using a 20x60S for a *long* time, in all sorts of conditions, and they never had a problem with the stabiliser. I know of two guys who had their 20x60S cleaned, after over 10 years of hard use, but that's about it.

Hermann

That is good to hear, plus it shows impressive repair/maintenance talent.
My electronic Canon 10x42IS went wonky after 8 years and Canon struggled to fix it. I eventually just bought another one.

 

[jgraider]

Electronics fail, it's just a matter of time.

 

[Kammerdiner]

My 33 year-old Porsche has Bosch Motronic ignition. Still works like new.

OK, one summer it was having hiccups. It fixed itself, don't ask me how!?!

But yeah Canon's IS electronics seem to go on the fritz rather often. I'll pass.

 

[opisska]

I must admit that this stabilised bino idea sounds interesting. But do I understand it correctly that they all work with AAs or similar and can't charge them internally? Then I am not surprised people are put off by that. I think the best solution is what now has popped up in headlamps and torchlights, which work on freely exchangeable accumulators (18650s and similar), but also can charge those from a USB themselves with no external charger. I personally have way too many gadgets to be excited for yet another system with accumulators that I need to remove and recharge and worry where they are, where is the charger etc... and single-use batteries seem like a terrible ecological. But obviously if I were carrying just the binos, it would be fine.

 

[etudiant]

I must admit that this stabilised bino idea sounds interesting. But do I understand it correctly that they all work with AAs or similar and can't charge them internally? Then I am not surprised people are put off by that. I think the best solution is what now has popped up in headlamps and torchlights, which work on freely exchangeable accumulators (18650s and similar), but also can charge those from a USB themselves with no external charger. I personally have way too many gadgets to be excited for yet another system with accumulators that I need to remove and recharge and worry where they are, where is the charger etc... and single-use batteries seem like a terrible ecological. But obviously if I were carrying just the binos, it would be fine.

Have to disagree, a built in battery is a weak point for an item that should last a lifetime. Much better to use AA or AAA batteries, they are cheap and universally available.
Against that, afaik the batteries are rarely the failure point for the Canon IS mechanism.
Of course, Canon itself has little confidence in its own design, else they would have increased the warranty period to the industry norm of 10 years from the 1-3 years it actually is.

 

[wllmspd]

Depends on use, mine are less used than before and so I was a bit shocked they seemed to suddenly fail on me with a judder. Dug the spares out from the pelicase I store them in, normal service resumed. I’ve had mine must be 15yrs, I have a few sticky patches on the outside I am dealing with, but the views are the same as new. I use lithium AA as they are light, leakproof and last forever. When these were designed rechargeable batteries were not so good. non replaceable batteries would be more of an obsolescence problem.

Mine are less used now as I prefer carrying lower powers, wider field bins and then adding a spotter/high power bins. If I could only carry one optic then the IS would come out as a the preferred option..

Peter

 

[42za]

Using a top quality mechanical binocular gives me a great deal of pleasure and satisfaction.

Adding batteries and other electronic bits and pieces somehow cheapens the experience for me.

In my experience electronics are unreliable and always seem to fail when least expected , the least bit of moisture plays havoc with the best electronic systems.
Batteries DO leak despite the manufacturers claims , then you often have to deal with a corrosive mess.

Just my thoughts on this LOL.

Cheers.

 

[opisska]

Have to disagree, a built in battery is a weak point for an item that should last a lifetime. Much better to use AA or AAA batteries, they are cheap and universally available.
Against that, afaik the batteries are rarely the failure point for the Canon IS mechanism.
Of course, Canon itself has little confidence in its own design, else they would have increased the warranty period to the industry norm of 10 years from the 1-3 years it actually is.

That's just a misunderstanding. Hard built-in accumulators are terrible. Standardized exchangeable accumulators that can be charged in the device are great! You can treat it as a device with built-in accumulator until it gets worn down and then you just pop in a new one.

Non-rechargeable AA batteries are cheap in terms of money, but that's not everything.

 

[etudiant]

That's just a misunderstanding. Hard built-in accumulators are terrible. Standardized exchangeable accumulators that can be charged in the device are great! You can treat it as a device with built-in accumulator until it gets worn down and then you just pop in a new one.

Non-rechargeable AA batteries are cheap in terms of money, but that's not everything.

Clearly we are on the same page, albeit speaking at cross purposes.
I agree entirely that the power supply mechanism in portable gear, optical or otherwise, should be replaceable.
I've a preference for lithium batteries, having given up on rechargeables because they don't break sharply between charged and discharged, a huge plus of the lithiums imho. A low voltage rechargeable stresses the Canon IS electronics in my experience, which is undesirable.
Sadly, rechargeable lithium AA or AAA batteries are still unavailable, so I stick with the throw aways. Hopefully that will change soon.

 

[18000bph]

Using a top quality mechanical binocular gives me a great deal of pleasure and satisfaction.

Adding batteries and other electronic bits and pieces somehow cheapens the experience for me.

In my experience electronics are unreliable and always seem to fail when least expected , the least bit of moisture plays havoc with the best electronic systems.
Batteries DO leak despite the manufacturers claims , then you often have to deal with a corrosive mess.

Just my thoughts on this LOL.

Cheers.

For sure, alkaline cells are not to be trusted. Modern top offerings are much better at preventing leaks but are not fail proof and have no business in high end devices like IS binoculars. However, you can use NiMh like Eneloop and lithium primaries without fear of leakage.

I share the same joy in the mechanical nature of traditional binoculars. It's similar to a traditional hand-wind or automatic watch movement in appeal. That being said, traditional binoculars don't stand a chance against IS in a hand holding situation where the function is paramount.

 

[opisska]

Clearly we are on the same page, albeit speaking at cross purposes.
I agree entirely that the power supply mechanism in portable gear, optical or otherwise, should be replaceable.
I've a preference for lithium batteries, having given up on rechargeables because they don't break sharply between charged and discharged, a huge plus of the lithiums imho. A low voltage rechargeable stresses the Canon IS electronics in my experience, which is undesirable.
Sadly, rechargeable lithium AA or AAA batteries are still unavailable, so I stick with the throw aways. Hopefully that will change soon.

Yep, and two out of three my new LED lights (mammalwatching gear for me) run on batteries that have a similar shape to an AA battery, just a bit bigger, and inside of this package is a Li-ion accumulator. That's why I am saying that other devices (such as the IS binos) should go this way, it's actually what you want

 

[Kevin Conville]

Yo Yarrellii, and a few others...

You have a quite archaic POV about rechargeable batteries.
People have mentioned Eneloop and they're pretty good. White ones have many (1000 claimed) cycles capability. Black ones (300 cycles, or so). Black ones having higher charge density.
LADDA, available through IKEA have quite high charge density (2450 mA) and are rated, I think, for 500 cycles. In the US they cost about half what Eneloops cost.

The LADDAs actually perform to their specification and Eneloops do not, BTW.
LADDA and Eneloop are NimH (nickel metal hydride) and not lithium. They are safer, though I don't distrust lithium batteries in low draw/discharge applications as in a binocular, and retain 80%+ of their charge after a year. Don't confuse either with earlier NimH technology or NiCads of which both would self discharge fairly rapidly. Both are made in Japan BTW.

Last, I have never had a rechargeable NimH battery leak (10+ years). Alkaline? Absolutely! Lithium? I think so, but not sure.

Though I share some of the concerns you brought up about battery powered IS bins, battery replacement, cost, sustainability, and waste are not amongst them.

 

[wllmspd]

I’ve had alkalines leak, even had a colleague “shoot me” with an exploding old battery once on his desk. Not had any issues with NiMH (never used them too much) and never with Lithium’s which I use for long term, low cycle kit that I don’t want to add/remove batteries every time I use them.

Otherwise I prefer USB rechargeable for everything else. When I have to use disposables, they go to special recycling.

Peter

 

[yarrellii]

Yo Yarrellii, and a few others...

You have a quite archaic POV about rechargeable batteries.

Yes, absolutely, my intention for opening this thread was pure and simple desire to fill my enormous gap of ignorance regarding the use of batteries with IS binoculars. As I mentioned earlier, I don't use AA batteries at all. I do use button style CR32 for work in some appliances, and those I have to buy new and dispose of when empty (hence part of my concern), then there's the fact that given that I'm quite clueless, I think it is quite likely that I forget them, forget about recharging them etc.
The information I've found on this thread has been really valuable and I'm very thankful to all who've cared to share their experiences and points of view. So much so, that I've decided to try IS. I saw a very tempting offer on a Canon and it's already on its way. I'll look for those Eneloop and LADDA and see what I make of them. I'm really looking forward to experiencing IS binoculars (part of my work involves photographing, where I've been using IS objectives for years). Thanks again!!

 

[etudiant]

Yo Yarrellii, and a few others...

People have mentioned Eneloop and they're pretty good. White ones have many (1000 claimed) cycles capability. Black ones (300 cycles, or so). Black ones having higher charge density.
LADDA, available through IKEA have quite high charge density (2450 mA) and are rated, I think, for 500 cycles. In the US they cost about half what Eneloops cost.

The LADDAs actually perform to their specification and Eneloops do not, BTW.
LADDA and Eneloop are NimH (nickel metal hydride) and not lithium. They are safer, though I don't distrust lithium batteries in low draw/discharge applications as in a binocular, and retain 80%+ of their charge after a year. Don't confuse either with earlier NimH technology or NiCads of which both would self discharge fairly rapidly. Both are made in Japan BTW.

Last, I have never had a rechargeable NimH battery leak (10+ years). Alkaline? Absolutely! Lithium? I think so, but not sure.

Though I share some of the concerns you brought up about battery powered IS bins, battery replacement, cost, sustainability, and waste are not amongst them.

Thank you for the helpful pointer re the LADDA brand rechargeables, as well as the clarification as to the difference in recharge cycle endurance for the black vs the white Eneloops.
I've both, but not knowing the difference, have not kept recharge count. Still, I've not had any issues with Eneloops over a decade or so of use, so they are more than good enough imho.
I've never had any issues either with disposable lithium AA and AAA batteries, they provide reliable power at the high end of the AA/AAA voltage spec, do it over a wide temperature range plus they do not leak. Their only drawback is price and appropriate disposal, lithium is too rare to get dumped into landfills.

 

[Kevin Conville]

Thank you for the helpful pointer re the LADDA brand rechargeables, as well as the clarification as to the difference in recharge cycle endurance for the black vs the white Eneloops.
I've both, but not knowing the difference, have not kept recharge count. Still, I've not had any issues with Eneloops over a decade or so of use, so they are more than good enough imho.
I've never had any issues either with disposable lithium AA and AAA batteries, they provide reliable power at the high end of the AA/AAA voltage spec, do it over a wide temperature range plus they do not leak. Their only drawback is price and appropriate disposal, lithium is too rare to get dumped into landfills.

To my thinking, non rechargeable lithium AA or AAA batteries are best suited for devices that have a very low draw or will be in disuse for long periods of time. Their very long shelf life and high charge density make them well suited for emergency equipment, alarms, etc.
For stuff that gets used with any regularity, NimH batteries are the way to go for the aforementioned reasons.

Regarding NimH recharging cycles... yeah, who keeps track of such things?
I've had a couple Eneloops fail to take a charge in about a decade. Pretty rare.
Tip: use a slow charger when you can. They generate far less heat in the batteries and extend their life.
Most new(ish) chargers have feedback circuitry to supply current as best the batteries can receive it, read: not to overheat them and charge as quickly but safely as they can. Still, a slower charger is healthier for the batteries generally.

 

[Hermann]

Regarding NimH recharging cycles... yeah, who keeps track of such things?
I've had a couple Eneloops fail to take a charge in about a decade. Pretty rare.

I got my first set of Eneloops well before they became available Europe and the US, as part of a groupbuy on Candlepowerforums. Currently I've got something like 30 AAs and 20 AAAs and use them in everything - flashlights, radioes, even my cordless mouse. Even my oldest Eneloops still hold a charge and lost next to no of their initial capacity. I had ONE Eneloop fail in all those years, after I dropped it on concrete.

Tip: use a slow charger when you can. They generate far less heat in the batteries and extend their life.
Most new(ish) chargers have feedback circuitry to supply current as best the batteries can receive it, read: not to overheat them and charge as quickly but safely as they can. Still, a slower charger is healthier for the batteries generally.

Strongly seconded. Get a good charger, and charge the Eneloops slowly unless you need them as quickly as possible.

Hermann

 

[Kevin Conville]

I got my first set of Eneloops well before they became available Europe and the US, as part of a groupbuy on Candlepowerforums. Currently I've got something like 30 AAs and 20 AAAs and use them in everything - flashlights, radioes, even my cordless mouse. Even my oldest Eneloops still hold a charge and lost next to no of their initial capacity. I had ONE Eneloop fail in all those years, after I dropped it on concrete.



Strongly seconded. Get a good charger, and charge the Eneloops slowly unless you need them as quickly as possible.

Hermann

Yeah Hermann, I've got a lot of them as well and use them in most everything that take AA or AAA cells. I use 18650 rechargeable lithium batteries in a few devices as well, but that's another topic.
What I do when I buy new ones is put some marking (with a felt marker) on them to differentiate them from others. This way I don't mix new ones with, say, 5 year old ones so the charge/discharge rates remain similar.

A good, inexpensive, slow "smart" charger is the Panasonic Advanced. It has four bays and will charge any number combination (odd or even count) and aa and aaa simultaneously. These don't use a readout like my more expensive charger to indicate starting voltage and fully charged voltage and charge rate, but otherwise works well to get a saturated charge. I've measured batteries with a volt meter to compare.

 

[Winterdune]

I've used Swarovski ELs for the last 20 years (two pairs in all that time). Out if interest and because I found a good deal I just bought a pair of Kite APC Stabilized 10x30s. Although it's easy to tell they are not high end optics, the experience of looking at a bird and switching on the stabilizer is almost a religious one, like suddenly achieving inner peace! I urge you to try it if you haven't. As soon as a company brings out a top of the range 10x42 IS binocular I'm trading my ELs!
Sean

 

[mbb]

I've used Swarovski ELs for the last 20 years (two pairs in all that time). Out if interest and because I found a good deal I just bought a pair of Kite APC Stabilized 10x30s. Although it's easy to tell they are not high end optics, the experience of looking at a bird and switching on the stabilizer is almost a religious one, like suddenly achieving inner peace! I urge you to try it if you haven't. As soon as a company brings out a top of the range 10x42 IS binocular I'm trading my ELs!
Sean

I just had the occasion to briefly(!) test the stabilised Kite 10x30 at the store today and, I have to agree, the stabilisation really is a considerable bonus regarding viewing comfort (“peaceful” might be a good word indeed) and effective detail you can pick up. A very nice sensation. Surprisingly useful for a 10x, probably not that much for an 8x, but certainly for a 12x.
Still, it lost a bit of ‘pure optics’ sensation which I like (see my previous post) and it makes the binoculars bulky for 30mm ones and a bit strange. I was pleasantly surprised the weight was really OK however! This is probably partly due to the somewhat higher use of plastic.
I think I will stick to classic binoculars in the sizes up to 32mm. It just seems to make more sense to me, as choosing 30-32mm binoculars is also because of size and weight, in my personal case. And I wouldn’t go to 12x on 30mm binoculars personally, because of the smaller exit pupil.
But that is just my personal opinion for my use of binoculars.
However, the day I will upgrade my older 10,5x45mm, I might be very interested in their 12x42mm stabilised that is coming (if I understood correctly) or a similar one. By than, more info, feedback from people using them etc. will probably be available, maybe also more models to choose from. (But I suppose that if Swarovski/Leica/Zeiss would produce such a pair, prices would probably be far beyond my budget, but maybe the Kite will be good enough.)
That would fit in more logically in what looks like an almost ideal setup for me: a pocketable and light-weight 8x25mm, a high quality 8x32mm as my mostly used pair of binoculars (on walks, on the bike, but also as a good companion when also carrying a spotting scope), and a 10x42/50mm for low-light&long-distance viewing not while on longer walks, and the spotting scope. (Just keeping a decent 8x30 as back-up and loaner.) Since today, I think making the 10x42/50mm a stabilised 10/12x42/50mm might make sense, if weight, optics and price are OK! But that would be for somewhere in the future...