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is it possible that this is a USA little stint? (1 Viewer)

tom baxter

Well-known member
I am posting for a friend.

Can we agree it is not a Semi? To my knowledge no Semi should show rufous tones in any plumage. The bill looks far from average Semi, long and thin and tapered to a point. It appears to be a juvenile to my eyes, showing some scaly patterning on the lower scapulars and coverts. Back braces are missing in the case that it is a contender for Little Stint, but otherwise it looks pretty good to me. That being said I have never seen one before so I seek some insight from the experts.
 

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njlarsen

Gallery Moderator
Opus Editor
Supporter
Barbados
BNA shows a juvenile where the text says
Note pale mantle, thin white wing-stripe (greater coverts), and rufous fringes on back feathers.
Rufous is also mentioned in the Sibley app.

Additional, the white braces are mentioned as the main distinguishing characteristic

Niels
 

Nutcracker

Stop Brexit!
Doesn't look right to me; as well as the lack of white 'braces', the toes on that lifted foot are too long and slender; compare Little Stint pic below.
 

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THE_FERN

Well-known member
Agree this is not semi-palmated as, for example, its feet are not semi-palmated. It's not little stint as the bill is too long and curved and the plumage pattern is all wrong, esp. as it is missing the diagnostic back "braces". On the other hand looks a fair fit for western sandpiper to me...
 

Andy Adcock

Well-known member
England
Agree this is not semi-palmated as, for example, its feet are not semi-palmated. It's not little stint as the bill is too long and curved and the plumage pattern is all wrong, esp. as it is missing the diagnostic back "braces". On the other hand looks a fair fit for western sandpiper to me...

I think...I remember an ID discussion years ago re Western Sand when the well twitched, Scottish bird was there and one of the features, was that the sparse, breastband, met across the middle.

Of course the mists of time could mean that I have this around my neck and am totally wrong?
 

tom baxter

Well-known member
Agree this is not semi-palmated as, for example, its feet are not semi-palmated. It's not little stint as the bill is too long and curved and the plumage pattern is all wrong, esp. as it is missing the diagnostic back "braces". On the other hand looks a fair fit for western sandpiper to me...

Thank you all. Also if it’s one of the 3 USA peeps I’d go with Western although the plumage is very perplexing
 

D Halas

Well-known member
All I see here is a muddy-legged Least. And if the lack of semipalmation rules out Semipalmated, then it rules out Western as well, since both species are semi-palmated.
 

D Halas

Well-known member
I can't see any hint of the reddish patch at the base of the lower mandible that a White-rumped should have, even when I increase the saturation to maximum in Photoshop.

However, we're looking at a screenshot of a photo on Flickr – that's bound to introduce some artifacts into the image. It would be helpful if we could get a look at the original photo.
 

tom baxter

Well-known member
I agree with you Mark, looks more like a White-rumped to me too.

I seriously considered that myself. I just don’t know what it is. The other photos on Flickr compound the issue. Certainly doesn’t look like a least in my opinion which in all fairness has to do a lot with other images on Flickr. Can anyone else vouch for western having semipalmation as well? This is the opposite of what I have thought although I don’t stand by it.
 

Nutcracker

Stop Brexit!
I seriously considered that myself. I just don’t know what it is. The other photos on Flickr compound the issue. Certainly doesn’t look like a least in my opinion which in all fairness has to do a lot with other images on Flickr. Can anyone else vouch for western having semipalmation as well? This is the opposite of what I have thought although I don’t stand by it.
Yes; well attested (e.g. Hayman, Marchant & Prater, Shorebirds). Equal to Semipalmated in extent or even marginally more.


Having said that, it's tough to tell if this photo shows any palmation or not; it isn't at all easy to see side-on, really needs a front-on view.
 

anderson10

Well-known member
Shape seems correct for White-rumped, as Mark has said. I haven't seen a juv WR Sand and the poster does not state when exactly his friend took this, July ?
 

D Halas

Well-known member
Yes; well attested (e.g. Hayman, Marchant & Prater, Shorebirds). Equal to Semipalmated in extent or even marginally more.


Having said that, it's tough to tell if this photo shows any palmation or not; it isn't at all easy to see side-on, really needs a front-on view.

I've just done a search for photos of Semipalmated and Western Sandpipers showing the foot, and I agree that, given the angle on the foot in this photo, it's actually impossible to tell if there's webbing or not.

I also hadn't realized that there were more photos than this one on the flickr page. Having looked at the others, it clearly isn't a Least (whoops!) but I don't see it being a White-rumped either. One of the photos clearly shows that the wingtips don't extend at all past the tail, and the streaking on the sides isn't extensive enough for White-rumped either. Western appears to be the likeliest candidate.
 

smiths

Well-known member
And why exactly could this not be a Least Sandpiper?

The toes are simply too long for anything else (except Long-toed Stint!), the blackish centers to the lower scapulars are much more extensive than in Western, the central breast is streaked, there is a black gape line, and althoug the legs are muddy they still do not look black (compare with bill colour).

Least Sand at comparable angle:
http://www.birdspix.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Least-Sandpiper-juvenile-034-cr.jpg
 

tom baxter

Well-known member
And why exactly could this not be a Least Sandpiper?

The toes are simply too long for anything else (except Long-toed Stint!), the blackish centers to the lower scapulars are much more extensive than in Western, the central breast is streaked, there is a black gape line, and althoug the legs are muddy they still do not look black (compare with bill colour).

Least Sand at comparable angle:
http://www.birdspix.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Least-Sandpiper-juvenile-034-cr.jpg

I agree based on what is available now, but I’m confused because I think some of the pictures got taken down. Other pictures showed more of an arguement against that than any of the ones currently.
 

tom baxter

Well-known member
I have to apologize to everyone because I have been informed that 2 of the original 6 pictures that were posted were removed because they were originally thought to be of the same bird and were indeed western sandpipers. The remaining 4 photos are of least sandpiper. The confusion by which none of us including myself realized the source of. Knowing that we had 2 different birds clears this up pretty cleanly in my opinion. The photo I posted is indeed a juvie least sandpiper
 

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