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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Farnboro John" data-source="post: 3407986" data-attributes="member: 36432">Yes. The real issues relate to grouse moors: as you say it is obvious that there are for instance areas of Northumberland where there are fewer or lesser problems: this only points up the real problem. There is no defending it or getting around it. Get off the fence Adam: I fear for your life with the splinter currently lacerating your bum. Grouse moors are dens of iniquity and you cannot reasonably deny it. You have perfect Hen Harrier habitat and no Hen Harriers (one or two pairs is sod all compared to the carrying  capacity of the habitat and you cannot reasonably deny that.)Down here in Hampshire we have the new breed of gamekeeper: we have Goshawks, Buzzards, Peregrines in numbers. We have gamekeepers offering their phone numbers and those of the wildlife crime officers to reduce hare coursing and other offences. We have the rule of law.The shooting thing can co-exist with conservation legislation. But it requires modern thinking and belief in the rule of law. Perhaps those things are absent in your area.John</blockquote>