• BirdForum is the net's largest birding community dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE!

    Register for an account to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Is the future of birding electric? (1 Viewer)

Jos Stratford

Beast from the East
Has anyone had one in real cold? Not UK cold. It was -44° here two weeks ago and regularly gets to -30 in the winter. Wonder how they work at that temp.
Lithuania has had a cold winter this year, minus 20 C for an extended period, a bit lower on occasion. Asked one friend who has an electric BMW ...all worked well, but at that temperature and with car heater on, he reported a loss of about 30% in range.
 

ClarkWGriswold

Carpe Carpum
Staff member
Supporter
Wales
They’ve tested the new MX-30 in this week’s Autocar. Great looking car in my opinion but a real world range of only 100 miles limits it’s appeal.
 

kb57

Well-known member
Europe
They’ve tested the new MX-30 in this week’s Autocar. Great looking car in my opinion but a real world range of only 100 miles limits it’s appeal.
Agree its a great looking car, but to me it is no use in practical terms, its a city car disguised as an SUV. When I get to 100 miles range I start to think about when I'm next going to top up, with the Mazda you'd have permanent range anxiety.
Didn't go into work this week so I was down to 80 miles range last night, so I did a quick top up to over 80% at the DC chargers near my partner's place - showing 242 miles at 82% charge right now after driving home, so up to 295 mile full range now - and the range estimates on the Kona are realistic, you can actually improve on them if you don't do childish things like burning off the bloke who's been tailgating you through the 30mph limit in his Jeep Wrangler when you reach the open road...
 

ClarkWGriswold

Carpe Carpum
Staff member
Supporter
Wales
Agree its a great looking car, but to me it is no use in practical terms, its a city car disguised as an SUV. When I get to 100 miles range I start to think about when I'm next going to top up, with the Mazda you'd have permanent range anxiety.
Didn't go into work this week so I was down to 80 miles range last night, so I did a quick top up to over 80% at the DC chargers near my partner's place - showing 242 miles at 82% charge right now after driving home, so up to 295 mile full range now - and the range estimates on the Kona are realistic, you can actually improve on them if you don't do childish things like burning off the bloke who's been tailgating you through the 30mph limit in his Jeep Wrangler when you reach the open road...
Kia and Hyundai have stolen a march over other manufacturers KB. Great cars.

I think the range extender MX-30 (when it’s released) could be interesting. I’ve got a bit of a soft spot for Mazdas. I currently own one and my brother has a mk1 MX-5.

Rich
 

kb57

Well-known member
Europe
Kia and Hyundai have stolen a march over other manufacturers KB. Great cars.

I think the range extender MX-30 (when it’s released) could be interesting. I’ve got a bit of a soft spot for Mazdas. I currently own one and my brother has a mk1 MX-5.

Rich
I like Mazdas too, I'd concede they're overall a step up from a Hyundai, although I do love my Kona. My business partner has a CX-5 - a bit big for me, and costs him way more in tax, but he really likes it, it's his second CX-5 lease car. I was 'upgraded' to a CX-3 rental car in the Algarve a couple of years ago and it was a great car, certainly the second best I've ever rented (after the Subaru Impreza I had in Hokkaido...). And our colleague used to have an old MX-5, a real classic - I couldn't begin to keep up with her on a winding road in my old Subaru, which I always thought had exemplary road-holding.
 

ClarkWGriswold

Carpe Carpum
Staff member
Supporter
Wales
I like Mazdas too, I'd concede they're overall a step up from a Hyundai, although I do love my Kona. My business partner has a CX-5 - a bit big for me, and costs him way more in tax, but he really likes it, it's his second CX-5 lease car. I was 'upgraded' to a CX-3 rental car in the Algarve a couple of years ago and it was a great car, certainly the second best I've ever rented (after the Subaru Impreza I had in Hokkaido...). And our colleague used to have an old MX-5, a real classic - I couldn't begin to keep up with her on a winding road in my old Subaru, which I always thought had exemplary road-holding.
2017 CX-5 here. Great car, but have not had much chance to drive it because of lockdown. Did get me out of a muddy car park (easily) last year where the rwd car got totally stuck, and a fwd needed 3 of us to push him out.
 

DMW

Well-known member
Perhaps the main problem with wholesale transitioning to EVs has been highlighted here: how do you charge if you park on the street? To deal with that would seemingly require an enormous amount of infrastructure development in a very short amount of time. The obvious solution is swappable batteries, with the equivalent of petrol stations handling this, but as far as I know this is not a route manufacturers are taking.
This leaves the obvious question of how governments intend to implement a ban on sales of new ICE vehicles within a decade in some cases.
One possibility is that they want to end general private ownership of cars, and force people to effectively rent them. There's a scheme to rent ebikes in Jersey that would be a model for this. You find the nearest ebike to you on an app, pay to hire it for however long you want, then leave it at a charging point (or just abandon it where you want, but that costs more). Self drive cars would enable you to call one to you / return to a charging point.
 

John Cantelo

Well-known member
Perhaps the main problem with wholesale transitioning to EVs has been highlighted here: how do you charge if you park on the street? To deal with that would seemingly require an enormous amount of infrastructure development in a very short amount of time. The obvious solution is swappable batteries, with the equivalent of petrol stations handling this, but as far as I know this is not a route manufacturers are taking.
This leaves the obvious question of how governments intend to implement a ban on sales of new ICE vehicles within a decade in some cases.
One possibility is that they want to end general private ownership of cars, and force people to effectively rent them. There's a scheme to rent ebikes in Jersey that would be a model for this. You find the nearest ebike to you on an app, pay to hire it for however long you want, then leave it at a charging point (or just abandon it where you want, but that costs more). Self drive cars would enable you to call one to you / return to a charging point.
The Chinese Nio ES8 EV has swappable batteries (see here) and the technology/infostructure seems to be well developed (around Shanghai at least if not throughout China). Swapping batteries in 3-4 minutes seems to me to be the way to go BUT would presumably mean rival companies would have to get together to agree on standardisation of batteries/technology and will presumably require a degree of 'future proofing' as the technology is moving fast. The bigger problem I suspect will be in generating sufficient energy to provide the rise in the demand for electricity.
 

DMW

Well-known member
The Chinese Nio ES8 EV has swappable batteries (see here) and the technology/infostructure seems to be well developed (around Shanghai at least if not throughout China). Swapping batteries in 3-4 minutes seems to me to be the way to go BUT would presumably mean rival companies would have to get together to agree on standardisation of batteries/technology and will presumably require a degree of 'future proofing' as the technology is moving fast. The bigger problem I suspect will be in generating sufficient energy to provide the rise in the demand for electricity.
Thanks for that, very interesting indeed. I wonder whether there has been any attempt to create any industry standards for battery swapping?
 

opisska

Jan Ebr
Poland
If this push leads to shared cars, it would literally be EU shooting itself in the foot by generating unnecessary journeys that way, what a great way to save energy!
 

Xenospiza

Distracted
Supporter
Thanks for that, very interesting indeed. I wonder whether there has been any attempt to create any industry standards for battery swapping?
Thanks for bringing up this issue: I had thought about a similar solution.
Apparently Tesla is also thinking of such a system.
The German car industry definitely isn't ready for this (much easier to come up with ideas on how to cheat the system!) and the EU is obviously asleep.
 

kb57

Well-known member
Europe
Perhaps the main problem with wholesale transitioning to EVs has been highlighted here: how do you charge if you park on the street? To deal with that would seemingly require an enormous amount of infrastructure development in a very short amount of time. The obvious solution is swappable batteries, with the equivalent of petrol stations handling this, but as far as I know this is not a route manufacturers are taking.
This leaves the obvious question of how governments intend to implement a ban on sales of new ICE vehicles within a decade in some cases.
One possibility is that they want to end general private ownership of cars, and force people to effectively rent them. There's a scheme to rent ebikes in Jersey that would be a model for this. You find the nearest ebike to you on an app, pay to hire it for however long you want, then leave it at a charging point (or just abandon it where you want, but that costs more). Self drive cars would enable you to call one to you / return to a charging point.
I don't charge at home, I live in a terraced house and park on a patch of waste ground opposite. With my hybrid I used to run an extension lead across the back lane to top up, but that only drew 3.2kW maximum from the mains - I'm not sure I'd like to test my domestic wiring with a full EV, but more importantly it would take ages to top up. My partner has a driveway where I also used to charge my hybrid from, but there's a fast DC charger 15 minutes walk away which is reasonably priced, so that is far more convenient. The key is range - driving an EV with an almost 300 mile range means I'm not always thinking where the next charger is located. For sure charging infrastructure and reliability still needs to improve.
I've noticed Volvo (and I think Polestar, which is I believe a Chinese-made Volvo...) have started advertising a 'subscription' option - I'm not sure how this compares with leasing - I can't imagine being Volvo it's going to be cheaper, but I guess it will be more flexible than being tied in to a 2 or 3 year contract.
 

DMW

Well-known member
If this push leads to shared cars, it would literally be EU shooting itself in the foot by generating unnecessary journeys that way, what a great way to save energy!
Not sure I understand what you are saying?
 

DMW

Well-known member
I don't charge at home, I live in a terraced house and park on a patch of waste ground opposite. With my hybrid I used to run an extension lead across the back lane to top up, but that only drew 3.2kW maximum from the mains - I'm not sure I'd like to test my domestic wiring with a full EV, but more importantly it would take ages to top up. My partner has a driveway where I also used to charge my hybrid from, but there's a fast DC charger 15 minutes walk away which is reasonably priced, so that is far more convenient. The key is range - driving an EV with an almost 300 mile range means I'm not always thinking where the next charger is located. For sure charging infrastructure and reliability still needs to improve.
I've noticed Volvo (and I think Polestar, which is I believe a Chinese-made Volvo...) have started advertising a 'subscription' option - I'm not sure how this compares with leasing - I can't imagine being Volvo it's going to be cheaper, but I guess it will be more flexible than being tied in to a 2 or 3 year contract.
Range is obviously critically important, but seems to be more or less reaching the point where most people can see EVs as a viable option, but that still leaves charging infrastructure as an unresolved issue. You sort of make the point by describing the as hoc methods you have used. Parking 15 mins walk away from your front door is going to be a major deterrent for a significant proportion of car owners.
 

kb57

Well-known member
Europe
Range is obviously critically important, but seems to be more or less reaching the point where most people can see EVs as a viable option, but that still leaves charging infrastructure as an unresolved issue. You sort of make the point by describing the as hoc methods you have used. Parking 15 mins walk away from your front door is going to be a major deterrent for a significant proportion of car owners.
Agreed, parking more than one minute away is too much for some! Although I only need to leave it there 45 minutes; I just choose to walk back and make a coffee in the house rather than stay and get a takeaway from the adjoining Costa or Macdonalds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DMW

Mike C

Emeritus President at Burnage Rugby Club
Interestingly my partner has discovered a charging point in a local shopping centre car park. It has two 40K (?) charge points and a 7K point. Even better they’re free. Provided by BE.EV and Transport for Greater Manchester. The same company provides 6 points at the local tram stop car park, which are also free and at the start of one of our 3.5 mile strolls.
Also all the local Tesco stores have four free 3K chargers.
The only drawback with her Leaf is the ~150 mile range.
It's perfectly fine for (eventually) visiting her sisters in Bury, her eldest son in Congleton and my sister in Denholme. We should even be OK for RSPB Burton Mere but Conwy is just out of reach until we can get over there in my car and scope out charging options there.
 

ClarkWGriswold

Carpe Carpum
Staff member
Supporter
Wales
I don't charge at home, I live in a terraced house and park on a patch of waste ground opposite. With my hybrid I used to run an extension lead across the back lane to top up, but that only drew 3.2kW maximum from the mains - I'm not sure I'd like to test my domestic wiring with a full EV, but more importantly it would take ages to top up. My partner has a driveway where I also used to charge my hybrid from, but there's a fast DC charger 15 minutes walk away which is reasonably priced, so that is far more convenient. The key is range - driving an EV with an almost 300 mile range means I'm not always thinking where the next charger is located. For sure charging infrastructure and reliability still needs to improve.
I've noticed Volvo (and I think Polestar, which is I believe a Chinese-made Volvo...) have started advertising a 'subscription' option - I'm not sure how this compares with leasing - I can't imagine being Volvo it's going to be cheaper, but I guess it will be more flexible than being tied in to a 2 or 3 year contract.
Polestar is definitely owned by Volvo and both are owned by Geely KB

Rich
 

John Cantelo

Well-known member
It seems that motorbike manufacturers are ahead of the game with regard to standardising batteries so that they can be swapped in minutes if this report is anything to go by. If carmakers really want car drivers to ditch petrol/diesel cars then this is the way to go.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top