Ivory-billed Woodpecker: Debunking the Critics (1 Viewer)

[Diane D]

The Luneau video has been discussed here: https://science.sciencemag.org/cont...ey&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&resourcetype=HWCIT
Also:

Ivory-billed Woodpecker – Sibley Guides

www.sibleyguides.com

The authors of that note were subsequently found to be completely wrong on the flight characteristics of large Campephilus woodpeckers. Also independent analysis of the video subsequent to the Science paper and science notes completely refuted and rejected the skeptic's notes or various points.

Embarrassingly Sibley had left out the woodpecker from his field guides. Sibley and Bevier exhibited an almost (I believe in redemption) unforgivable error when they predicted an Ivory-Bill woodpecker would flap slower than a Pileated.

This has been proven to be wrong in many ways and by many people including the world renowned flight characteristic expert and other experts. These scientists are well published in the field. None of the science note authors had been pre-published in the pertinent subjects.

Their points were disputed by some phds with pertinent experience in flight characteristics and by others who knew video artifacts.

 

[opisska]

One thing on this confuses me really: so this was in 2004, right? That's not 1980, modern technology existed in 2004. Why did they have such crappy cameras?

 

[Diane D]

One thing on this confuses me really: so this was in 2004, right? That's not 1980, modern technology existed in 2004. Why did they have such crappy cameras?

 

[ZanderII]

View attachment 1356365View attachment 1356365

I can see a model woodpecker and some blurs there.

 

[Diane D]

It's great that you recognize the quality of the video but you have not contemplated the myriad reasons that caused that other than cost of the equipment. Some of the equipment was expensive for the time.

The Luneau v. was ambiently or accidentally gathered. He did not have it correctly focused or at least one of the settings was wrong. I could of course check with him if it's important.

I think people underestimate what happens often when you're in the field day after day with sensitive equipment and no way to charge your batteries in these subject years; battery life was very short then. You need this battery it's all important; Luneau had his camera hooked up to a larger stationary battery in the canoe.

Luneau is highly experienced in electronics. Point being in those years you spent a good amount of time worrying about batteries and cameras getting ruined and wet, sometimes one setting can be off or not positioned correctly. You cannot easily see if you're in focus if you're not at home and downloading video to a PC. The small camera view screens 20 years ago we're small and horrible.

Ruining your camera, lens or your battery dying is fatal for at a minimum your entire day or even months as far as getting that picture that so many demand. if you're on a budget or have certain priorities for your money you tend to not want to ruin your equipment or buy top line just to have it broken again. People think we are on some stakeout , we are not. You usually don't jump out of your friends vehicle walk into a feeder or walk down a trail for a mile or less and get an ivory bill. There's many hours and many days and even weeks in habitat fatal to electronics.

A bird can pop out at only one second for the entire week. It can be hard to have everything ready to go if you just got stuck in mud requiring portal 2 minutes before. Sometimes you have to completely empty your vessel. Many of us ruined a lot of equipment.

So settings sometimes are off. There are a lot of technical issues and technical considerations when you have to be prepared every minute of the research day. Regardless there's plenty of data on the film

I can comment on the three best videos and the technical issues if needed.

Sorry for what will sound like excuses but we are only people and we can't be perfect no matter how hard we try.

Perfection should not be the enemy of conservation. Pictures of woodpeckers or videos of woodpeckers with white where it shouldn't be and of sizes incorrect for Ivory bill are not Ivory bills. Likewise blurry videos and blurry pictures that are wrong for pileated markings, are the wrong size for pileated and have the wrong flight characteristics and are found in areas and only areas where several people are claiming Ivory bills sightings; Kent's and drums, in a short period of time are likely not pileated woodpeckers.

No phds are needed to see a woodpecker like bird is in three of the four frames...... The fourth frame is a model. Blurry or not this shows a woodpecker 20 in long (it was measurefd) white wing saddles and later in the video that black and white shape is gone. Seconds later you have a Campephilus like bird flying away. These are almost assuredly the same animal.

If they aren't then anyone should be able to get a video of a blurry pileated flying like that and perched on any tree in any of the frames perched before or after any flight sequence you want to submit.

D...o..o.......u ....ge t ---- i...t. ?

Last sentence was not perfect many types of mistakes but it has the exact amount of data that a correctly written sentence would .

Be good hope that helps.

 

[Hauksen]

Hi,

The Luneau v was ambiently or accidentally gathered. He did not have it correctly focused or at least one of the settings was wrong. I could of course check with him if it's important.

Terribly sorry I have to ask again, but: Are you Mike Collins?

Your prompt appearance here after the disappearance of the last inspired defender of Mike's findings, look just like what I'd describe as a possible Sock-Puppet sighting.

Regards,

Henning

 

[Andy Adcock]

Hi,



Terribly sorry I have to ask again, but: Are you Mike Collins?

Your prompt appearance here after the disappearance of the last inspired defender of Mike's findings, look just like what I'd describe as a possible Sock-Puppet sighting.

Regards,

Henning

Thinking exactly the same, either that or a besotted field assitant from the survey.

 

[Diane D]

Thinking exactly the same, either that or a besotted field assitant from the survey.

 

[Diane D]

I thought I was just talking about video evidence and not being interviewed for People's magazine. Is this a thread about Ivory Bill woodpeckers or about people.

And besides the conversation was about Luneau's video...... And what that bird is flying away like no pileated I have ever seen.

Have you seen a lot of pileated woodpeckers in flight before or after the subject videos? Love to see your data.

 

[Deb Burhinus]

I wonder what the reaction would be if those video stills were put on the BF Q&A Identification thread? Someone should try it ... although my faith in the ability of some of the BF stalwarts to identify the worst kind of birdy-blobs may be over-rated

 

[Diane D]

I love it .....birdy blobs.....a short humorous alliteration.

All the more reason it should be quite easy for some of you to get an oreo-like woodpecker birdie blob in the same video sequence like Luneau's video and collect $50,000!!!!!

Easy enough per persons with funny names.

 

[Diane D]

Thinking exactly the same, either that or a besotted field assitant from the survey.

Talking about field assistants have you ever heard that Jackson freely accepted money to study Ivory bills without likely telling his funders he was hearing impaired. This is the guy with the main responsibility to find the ivy bill in those decades. This is the same Jackson that skeptics seem to link to as if his paper is anything but an emotional, jealous outburst.

His field assistant Hodge heard an Ivory bill with jackson saying "where????". Hodge had to walk Jackson towards the Kenting beast....and then again until finally ......."I hear it!!!!!!

Many have always looked the other way on this since Jackson always argued the bird might persist in the US. Of course when it was found and he wasn't part of it he exhibited typical behavior when people are deeply hurt in important ways.

I imagine he felt unappreciated and it hurt him financially too, since he had been pumping out books also. It certainly wouldn't have impaired future sales if he was part of the discovery. Of course we wouldn't have to suffer through that awful skeptical article filled with psychobabble if he had been let in.

And please review the moving goal lines between evidence needed from Cuba and evidence needed from the United States. Jackson of course was on the sugarcane bandwagon even though there's no hard evidence that any of them actually saw an ivy bill.

 

[opisska]

I really wonder what's going on in your mind that you think that being an asshole to someone because they are hard of hearing is helping your cause?

I have no idea whether the IBWO is extinct or not, but after seeing how one side of the debate acts, I surely do wish that it was and you got proven wrong, just because you lot deserve it.

 

[Diane D]

I really wonder what's going on in your mind that you think that being an asshole to someone because they are hard of hearing is helping your cause?

I have no idea whether the IBWO is extinct or not, but after seeing how one side of the debate acts, I surely do wish that it was and you got proven wrong, just because you lot deserve it.

Pointing out someone was hearing impaired for a position that auditory ability is important is treating someone like an a******? Do you think the people that paid his salary think that was fair or maybe he was not qualified and did not disclose it?

And even if I am completely degrading him which I am certainly not how in the world should my opinion cause you to wish an independent species eternal Extinction. It's the most convoluted thing I've heard today but it's early.

There is no moral equivalency and it's completely nonsensical for anything I say or you say to have another person wish a species Extinction. It's beyond emotional. I think thee protest to much.

It's demonstrably obtuse for you to Passover unethical behavior (if that is what happened) by taking money for a position that the public is trusting will be performed in an efficient way.

You seem to be completely unaware that people in the United States with conflicts of interest tried to deprive the ivory bill of various conservation funds. You completely missed the point of what Jackson may have done.

 

[ZanderII]

It's great that you recognize quality of the video but you have not contemplated all the reasons that caused that other than cost of the equipment.

The videos are always blurred and equivocal because fundamentally it is impossible to get a sharp identifiable photo of an extinct species. It is possible however to take lots of poor quality video of a confusion species which will eventually yield 'candidate' IBWOs if Mikes/Truth-seekers/Dianes take enough footage.

There are however lots of lost species with high rediscovery prospects that would benefit from the boundless enthusiasm, time and money that you have dedicated to the IBWO cause. Happy to make recomendations that represent better value for money and tangible chances of success.

 

[RafaelMatias]

Pointing out someone was hearing impaired for a position that auditory ability is important is treating someone like an a******? Do you think the people that paid his salary think that was fair or maybe he was not qualified and did not disclose it?

And even if I am completely degrading him which I am certainly not how in the world should my opinion cause you to wish an independent species eternal Extinction. It's the most convoluted thing I've heard today but it's early.

There is no moral equivalency and it's completely nonsensical for anything I say or you say to have another person wish a species Extinction. It's beyond emotional. I think thee protest to much.

It's demonstrably obtuse for you to Passover unethical behavior (if that is what happened) by taking money for a position that the public is trusting will be performed in an efficient way.

You seem to be completely unaware that people in the United States with conflicts of interest tried to deprive the ivory bill of various conservation funds. You completely missed the point of what Jackson may have done.

Is this a thread about Ivory Bill woodpeckers or about people.

 

[Diane D]

. It is possible however to take lots of poor quality video of a confusion species which will eventually yield 'candidate' IBWOs if Mikes/Truth-seekers/Dianes take enough footage.

Again if you believe all the videos are of some confusement species them come and try and collect the reward by duplicating them as mentioned. Your alleged confusing species are common so shouldn't it be easy? I am serious.

But you are not.

 

[Diane D]

I am fitting right in........Why does someone believe you when you say there are four billion stars, but check when you say the paint is wet?

 

[RafaelMatias]

Sorry, you're quoting me on something I didn't say. I understand it was meant for me, but it appears like you're quoting me.
It seems you have a problem, but I think you're not going to find a solution for it within Birdforum. Perhaps the best way to find a solution for it is for you to go back to the swamps and look for some IBWP, they're just waiting for you.

You said above that this "was not about people", but it seems that in the end it is, somehow.

 

[RafaelMatias]

Some months ago I watched an episode of the TV series "Extinct of Alive" on the Ivory-billed Woopecker, which can be seen here in full:

Michael Collins makes a short appearance, guiding the host to one of the hotspots. They then use a drone to try and find some IBWP flying around. Then there's a flock of Black Vultures flying over the trees when they say "Holy smokes, that's a lot of Turkey Vultures". I froze. Here: