Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (1 Viewer)

[Big Phil]

With DNA methods similar to paternity tests, it is easy to check both species and individual of the feather. If the feather was from stuffed specimen, DNA would be identical.

I imagine thats true. You would need to test every specimen in existance though. I also guess that any IBW specimens are so old now that their feathers would be obviously suspect.

 

[Curtis Croulet]

this is how these things develop into folklore.... and we are also discussing comments that are currently no more than 'hearsay'

Tim

Yes, it's hearsay. If Mindy objects to the account as told in The Grail Bird (have you read it?) and as Gallagher presents it in his talks, she can sue him. The reason for her 1% reservation has already been explained. If you think the 1% invalidates the other 99%, that's your choice. But the fact is, you don't know what you would have done in this circumstance. Mindy's reservation is the expression of a real scientist doing real work on the scene -- unlike some of the skeptics in this forum.

The knocks and "kents": most of them are recorded, not heard in person. Plus, this is a heavily-wooded swamp, which you can see in the photos. Even common birds a short distance away can be hard to see, even though they are heard. I haven't been to the Big Woods, but I hear birds all the time in my backyard that I can't see. It was three days recently before I found that an unfamiliar sound high in the trees was a Lawrence's Goldfinch.

 

[Curtis Croulet]

I imagine thats true. You would need to test every specimen in existance though. I also guess that any IBW specimens are so old now that their feathers would be obviously suspect.

Someone else here said DNA tests were performed, but they were "inconclusive."

 

[olivacea]

Ducks? No Way!

I have to agree with those how have suggested that flying, fleeing, etc. ducks do not make any noise even close to the old recordings of Ivory-billed double-knocks. I have never heard any noise produced by ducks that come anywhere close to that sound. Granted that ducks are somewhat noisy flyers, generally producing wing beats audible at several hundred meters...

Is there a link to the audio file of the supposed double-knock recorded in the Pearl River area several years ago? I would like to listen to it again. I remeber when I first listened to it, and thought Wow! Then I listened to it again, again, etc., and finally came to the conclusion that it was the sound from a large caliber weapon, either a rifle or a hand-gun, not a shotgun.

olivacea

 

[Curtis Croulet]

IIRC, Cornell concluded that the "double-knock" from Pearl River was a distant gunshot. The matter died there.

 

[jurek]

Someone else here said DNA tests were performed, but they were "inconclusive."

These methods are improving (and becoming cheaper!) every year. I guess they could be repeated.

I think if specific museum specimen is missing a specific feather, sorting this would be easy.

I don't think that DNA testing against ALL mounted specimens makes sense (most are inaccessible for pranksters) but even then it should be possible - there should be at most few dozens of skins in existence.

BTW, I would love to see a second video of ivorybill female inspecting decoys, even if unconclusive.

 

[choupique1]

IIRC, Cornell concluded that the "double-knock" from Pearl River was a distant gunshot. The matter died there.

it was an M-60 to be exact......

 

[Curtis Croulet]

it was an M-60 to be exact......

Cool! I fired one when I was in the army.

 

[OK Birder]

Whoa! what's someone doing out there with a (usually tank mounted) machine gun (M60) or did you mean M16 or more likely an AR-15?

Lyn

 

[SBauer]

this is how these things develop into folklore.... and we are also discussing comments that are currently no more than 'hearsay'

Tim

Rumor has it that that conversation was actually videotaped, so it might be more than 'hearsay'...

...not that that one detail is going to change anyone's mind whether she actually saw an Ivory-billed...

 

[Curtis Croulet]

I think if specific museum specimen is missing a specific feather, sorting this would be easy.

As I understand it, a specimen is missing that exact feather. Now (putting conspiracy hat on), did Heinzmann et al steal the feather and claim to have found it in an attempt to buttress their claim, or did someone else plant it to discredit them?

 

[DaveL]

I think the M60 itself is a tank, but also a automatic weapon...

Still seems kind of extreme for hunting, but i don't know much about it..

http://www.is.lt/atas-buves/atas_weapon/m60.2.jpg

 

[humminbird]

Page 215 "The Grail Bird" paragraph 3

"I interviewed Mindy on camera that night..."

No rumor about it - GALLAGHER (I won't make the mistake of saying Tim since someone thinks any time it is used it refers to him) states it in black and white.

Mindy, to my knowledge has never challenged the statement.

Within 1% confidence is "proof" in most cases. Why not now? Too inconvenient?

Mark

Rumor has it that that conversation was actually videotaped, so it might be more than 'hearsay'...

...not that that one detail is going to change anyone's mind whether she actually saw an Ivory-billed...

 

[choupique1]

I think the M60 itself is a tank, but also a automatic weapon...

Still seems kind of extreme for hunting, but i don't know much about it..

http://www.is.lt/atas-buves/atas_weapon/m60.2.jpg

Whoa! what's someone doing out there with a (usually tank mounted) machine gun (M60) or did you mean M16 or more likely an AR-15?

Lyn

Nobody ever said it was hunters shooting now did they......... A couple of military units do use that area to train in outside of hunting season(when the sound was heard)..... it was much louder than the ar-15 sound...... It was an M-60(which a version is carried by one person... ... usually the biggest guy in the team....

 

[Big Phil]

As I understand it, a specimen is missing that exact feather. Now (putting conspiracy hat on), did Heinzmann et al steal the feather and claim to have found it in an attempt to buttress their claim, or did someone else plant it to discredit them?

Maybe the bird itself planted it to protect its quasi-mythical status?. :smoke: .

 

[Goatnose]

Increased Activity

Bird searchers around these parts(WRNWR)demonstrated an increase in activity today. No not birds but bird searchers. Something must be smelling really good in the Cornell kitchen for so much activity around the local internet wireless dinner table. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Gosh, I wish the IBWO was as easy to trail as the searchers....well not really, Jackson would have declared them extinct a long time ago.
Can anyone contribute or rule out this rumor?

 

[oriole83]

99%?

why the doubt

if i saw one and noted the fieldmarks CLEARLY IN MY NOTEBOOK, i would be 100%. How come people hear double knocks from various directions yet the bird remains impossible to see?

fuzzy videos
fuzzy sightings
fuzzy logic

what was the 'official' respone to Driscoll's, Taylor's and Lebranche's sightings? They aren't accepted by BirdLife International for example.

Tim

Tim,

How come people hear double knocks from various directions yet the bird remains impossible to see? Experienced observers HAVE seen the bird, but these observations are "fuzzy" (right?). Clearly, I think we can agree that the problem is that there is no definitive photograph. Further, while observers have heard the double-knocks the recordings made by Cornell's ARU's are not fuzzy. There are now many recordings (Cornell will release just how many at the end of the search season next month). At least some of the double-knocks are separated by a short interval (a few seconds) and originate from two locations relative to the position of the ARU's (as is expected of typical Campephilus woodpeckers during the breeding season). Until the recent IBWO debate the double-knocks of Campephilus woodpeckers were considered to be distinctive of the genus. Why has this changed?

The only coherent explanation for the double-knocks is that they are recordings played back from two sources as part of a grand conspiracy. While this is less preposterous than duck wingflaps, the conspiracy theory is absurd to me. I guess the key question is whether it is more absurd that the IBWO is in Arkansas and that dozens of experienced searchers have yet to come up with a mugshot despite thousands of hours in the field. Only time will tell. However, when the White River NWR and surrounding wilderness areas are seen from aerial photos it is not difficult to conceive why. The low density of the IBWO, the expansiveness of the woods, and inaccessibility to key areas are a viable explanation for the notable absence of a photo. While the video is fuzzy, the logic is not.

Does anyone have a better explanation for the double-knocks then duck wingbeats and the grand conspiracy theory?

Jonathan Flowers
Stony Brook, NY

 

[oriole83]

Bird searchers around these parts(WRNWR)demonstrated an increase in activity today. No not birds but bird searchers. Something must be smelling really good in the Cornell kitchen for so much activity around the local internet wireless dinner table. Keeping my fingers crossed.
Gosh, I wish the IBWO was as easy to trail as the searchers....well not really, Jackson would have declared them extinct a long time ago.
Can anyone contribute or rule out this rumor?

Any more details you wish to share?

 

[Goatnose]

Outside the curve

Any more details you wish to share?

Details, no actually just rumor. These folks do stick out around here so if they were seen hovering over the few fast speed internet servers in this area just indicates that they were outside their normal deviation.
Numerous variables here,e.g. why is Cornell bumming CPU time off a lowly Community college?

 

[IBWO_Agnostic]

Perhaps they're all looking for new jobs.....;-)