Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (1 Viewer)

[ed keeble]

Gotta remember folks, light can play tricks on color patterns. How many have seen photos of red breasted hummingbirds? I get them all the time from confused observers who do not realize that the light coming off the feeder will create a red tint. On the right background, with the light at the right angle, black feet and legs could apear blue.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

I am happier to see a description obviously written by a non-birder, like this one, than one from a non-birder which reads like extracts from a fieldguide. Don't be put off, Fishing4clues!

 

[Curtis Croulet]

I may be the only person in the birder community who doesn't like the NGS guide. Some of the hummingbird paintings, for example, are laughable, obviously painted by someone who never saw living birds and probably not even good study skins. Everytime I look at the National Geographic guide, I wonder: if birds I know are so badly depicted, then what about birds I don't know?

 

[humminbird]

I may be the only person in the birder community who doesn't like the NGS guide. Some of the hummingbird paintings, for example, are laughable, obviously painted by someone who never saw living birds and probably not even good study skins. Everytime I look at the National Geographic guide, I wonder: if birds I know are so badly depicted, then what about birds I don't know?

Good points Curtis. NGS 3 was outrageous. 4 is a little better!

Mark
Bastrop, TX

 

[affe22]

Good points Curtis. NGS 3 was outrageous. 4 is a little better!

Mark
Bastrop, TX

For North America, why choose anything but Sibley's?

 

[Tero]

I may be the only person in the birder community who doesn't like the NGS guide. Some of the hummingbird paintings, for example, are laughable, obviously painted by someone who never saw living birds and probably not even good study skins. Everytime I look at the National Geographic guide, I wonder: if birds I know are so badly depicted, then what about birds I don't know?

I don't use it much. I have it in the trunk of my car, as it was cheap, the old edition.

My usage these days:
Kaufman..mostly for ease and portability
Sibley
Peterson
Stokes only at home..
I use it mostly for a second opinion, good for shorebirds, gulls

 

[Curtis Croulet]

I don't use it much. I have it in the trunk of my car, as it was cheap, the old edition.

My usage these days:
Kaufman..mostly for ease and portability
Sibley
Peterson
Stokes only at home..
I use it mostly for a second opinion, good for shorebirds, gulls

Great minds (?) think alike!

 

[humminbird]

For North America, why choose anything but Sibley's?

In the work I am in, where I have calls coming in from all over the country saying "I saw a little brown bird...", it is much easier to help them identify what they have if I can say "what field guide are you using?" and pull mine off the shelf so that we are both looking at the same thing.

Mark
Bastrop, Tx

 

[Terry O'Nolley]

Sarcasm not appreciated!
Mark
Bastrop, TX

Noted. But my questions were meant to be taken literally. I'm glad someone else answered and said that maybe the cranes are eaten.

And if you aren't going to eat the things you destroy then what better way to describe it than "Shooting things just to kill them"?

As for the "paying the state enough money". Isn't that what you do to get your hunting permit? I know that is what I do! It would be cool if it were free, but it isn't. I have to pay the state enough money to get permission to kill the things I want to kill. Or be a poacher (which I am not).

What exactly did you think sarcastic?

 

[humminbird]

I know of no hunters who kill for the sake of killing. Sandhill Cranes are eaten in several states during migration.

I appologize if you did not intend the note to be sarcastic, but with the anti hunting sentiment we have seen so many times in this discussion, I assumed it was simply another.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

 

[affe22]

I know of no hunters who kill for the sake of killing. Sandhill Cranes are eaten in several states during migration.

Unfortunately I know people who kill things and do not wish to eat them, but not just for the sake of killing, but that is not a discussion for this thread. Just letting you know that there are people out there who shoot things they don't want to eat, i.e. most carnivores and raptors.

 

[cts]

[/QUOTE]I may be the only person in the birder community who doesn't like the NGS guide. Some of the hummingbird paintings, for example, are laughable, obviously painted by someone who never saw living birds and probably not even good study skins. Everytime I look at the National Geographic guide, I wonder: if birds I know are so badly depicted, then what about birds I don't know?

Though I use a Sibleys I do have the 4th Ed of NGS and a very old National Audubon guide. Sometimes I use all three. But the Sibley I have and Audubon do not have anythiong about the IBWP in them. But looking at many other pictures like on the Aug. cover of Birders world paintings by Matt Bohan, and others clearly depict a small edge of "feathers" between the beak and the head on the top of the beak only. I have noticed that not all depictions show this, but many do. Look closely at "Sonny Boy" on JJ Kuhns arm you can see the small ridge of feathers.

 

[humminbird]

I know of a lot of killers too, but I would not consider them hunters. In most jurisdictions it is illegal to waste a kill.

Mark
Bastrop, TX

 

[fishing4clues]

Your story intrigues me and has some interesting significance. You were introduced to Gene Sparling in Jan of 2000? Gene was introduced to the world as an unwhitting observer who happened upon the bird while on a kayaking trip. He posted his observation on a kayaking board and didn't make a big deal about it,,it was forwarded to Mary Scott who passed on the info to Tim Gallagher. If you met him in 2000, and you can correct me if I'm wrong,,this means he DID have prior knowledge of the bird and his kayaking trip may have had more significance than he let on. If this part is true then I am mad. I really try to trust people who are "in charge" but there seems to be more to this story than we're being told. This is why so many people DON'T report their sightings,,,

If your story is true,,(I hope it is), then it must be an interesting feeling to know in your own mind that the bird exists,,and that you saw a juvenile which means it is reproducing. But my question is,,,why hasn't your sighting been included in the literature? And how did you come to meet Sparling in 2000? Was he indeed looking for the bird at that point? It's obviously before he had his own sighting.

Please fill us(me) in,,,I really would like to know what is going on? Bill

Well Bill I'm sorry to have to be bearer of bad news but I guess you should be mad. I was when I heard his side. And what's more The Wildlife Officers and the Agfc all have known about me from the beginning. The people I worked with have stopped me on the street to ask if it was the same bird, They've (my co-workers and Gene Sparling) came in where I work now and verified my story. Gene Sparling even gave me his cell number and said I hope your ready your life is about to change forever. I told him I doubted it because the guy that came with him was in such a rage and kept saying I wasn't supposed to remember. And that the story wasn't supposed to get out and I asked why and he stomped out of the building.
I asked why my name hadn't been mentioned and was told by Scott Simon that I didn't have the credintials to back me. Such as phd.,birding knowledge,and so forth. I told him then that I knew some people wouldn't believe me but there would be others that would to the point of investigateing my story. I don't have a diagram of a bird so that I can give the right names for the body parts but if you'll email me a copy of the diagram of a bird I'll be glad to name the parts for you. The reason I didn't come forward earlier was two reasons. 1st Conny Dickers of the FWC asked me not to disclose the info so that they could do the research unhampered by birders I asked for how long and she said 5 or 6 years. I did what she asked because I didn't realize how big of a find this was. 2nd at the time my son was only 10 yrs old and I had to think of my responsibilities as a parent.
As for how I was introduced to Gene Sparling. Agfc officer Cornell Tapper ( he no longer works for them don't know why) introduced him to me as a well known birder that was interested in my sighting. I told him I saw it at Strickland Point in Dagmar. He checked it out on several occasions asked me in which direction he had flown in and I kept telling him he was comeing from and returned back in the direction of Hickerson Lake.

 

[affe22]

I know of a lot of killers too, but I would not consider them hunters. In most jurisdictions it is illegal to waste a kill.

I'm sorry to say it depends on what you are shooting. In most states, shooting a coyote for nothing more than a skin is a perfectly acceptable activity. People used to be given money (maybe they still are) for bringing in groundhog ears. I know Arizona has a limited raptor season and I imagine that people aren't doing much with these either. Most of these people would consider themselves hunters as they also shoot more familiar game animals for food.

Fishing4clues, what is your name? I'm not sure you have mentioned it yet just in case people want to know who you are and talk to the other people about you.

 

[thatmagicguy]

I find this all disturbing,,,,,,Tim Gallagher's account is different and if he has knowledge of this then his credibility is shot,,,,I don't care how many Phd's they have,,,integrity is everything to me.

Interesting that Mr Sparling has guided tours,,he's profitting from these and it burns my butt that this may have been his motivation from the get go. Bill

 

[affe22]

Way to speculate thatmagicguy. Why is it that some person whose name you don't know and (to me at least) has shown very little to indicate they saw the bird or talked to anyone is ultimately more credible than Gene Sparling and Tim Gallagher's account of the situation? Like I said before, I'm having a much harder time believing the things Fishing4clues is saying and I'd need way more proof of their account than the former people.

 

[curunir]

I'm sorry to say it depends on what you are shooting. In most states, shooting a coyote for nothing more than a skin is a perfectly acceptable activity. People used to be given money (maybe they still are) for bringing in groundhog ears. I know Arizona has a limited raptor season and I imagine that people aren't doing much with these either. Most of these people would consider themselves hunters as they also shoot more familiar game animals for food.

Don't forget varmint hunting for prairie dogs. Bear hunting for gall bladders. Trophy hunting for mounted heads, etc. It's all hunting. Not good or bad but it exists. This is way off topic.

 

[thatmagicguy]

Hi Affe22, I know what you mean about speculating. I just seem to trust people too much. I have no reason to disbelieve FFC,,but on the other hand the other players haven't really given me anything to make me distrust them,,except for the secrecy, their distrust of anyone outside their cornell circle,,,their inability to do a respectable survey of the area in question,,etc, etc.

To me, all of these players are insignificant to the planet, other than the fact that they have brought about too much attention to said bird. As soon as the hunters are threatened,,,as soon as some greedy bounty hunter is offered the right price,,,these birds will be gone much the same way as the bird(s) in the pearl.

If indeed the birds have been breeding in arkansas, they have been doing it quietly without anyone's help,,,now all of the attention is on them and people will be people and someone will cap their butts.

In my line of thinking it is a much wiser decision to find them, document their needs and lifestyle and NEVER disclose where they are.

But in this age of "look at me!" the finders just needed to tell everyone,,,,and for Cornell,,it didn't hurt them to stand up and say,,,"Look at us! We rediscovered it again! We are sooo smart!"

If Fishing for Clues is telling the truth then Mr Sparling can kiss my you know what. If Fishing for Clues is lying,,and I'm believing him/her,,,then I should kiss Mr Sparling's you know what.

Bill

 

[affe22]

But in this age of "look at me!" the finders just needed to tell everyone,,,,and for Cornell,,it didn't hurt them to stand up and say,,,"Look at us! We rediscovered it again! We are sooo smart!"

That's a pretty negative take on it. If Cornell had never come out and published it, would The Nature Conservancy have bought that much land to protect? Would the feds put money into protecting the area? There is still a fight to protect the White River even after the announcement. Imagine if everyone had shutup about it. There wouldn't even be an argument against the redirection of water. I personally don't believe Cornell was doing it as much to pat themselves on the back as ensure that the IBWP gets some protection.

And as for your arguments against the Cornell team, you obviously think that secrecy is warranted and they didn't keep it in their Cornell circle. They kept it to a minimum number of people from three schools and some general public in order to keep it quite while they got thier research going. Also, given the time, the size of the crew they had and the understanding that someone would find out something eventually I feel that they did the best survey they could. Field work isn't as easy as it may seem. Don't see why you're angry at them and so trusting of an anonymous screen name on a public forum.

 

[humminbird]

I'm sorry to say it depends on what you are shooting. In most states, shooting a coyote for nothing more than a skin is a perfectly acceptable activity. People used to be given money (maybe they still are) for bringing in groundhog ears. I know Arizona has a limited raptor season and I imagine that people aren't doing much with these either. Most of these people would consider themselves hunters as they also shoot more familiar game animals for food.

Fishing4clues, what is your name? I'm not sure you have mentioned it yet just in case people want to know who you are and talk to the other people about you.

Okay, I know this is off topic and KC or any of the other administrators are welcome to censure me for this, but I think it is important that this board present facts - not opinions. I just read the AZGF website regulations regarding the "limited raptor season". This is a LIVE TAKE season for falconers - in other words the birds are captured live, used for hunting for a season and then, in most cases, released back into the wild. This is not a kill season.
Fact - the hunting of bears for their gall bladder only constitutes a violation. Similarly hunting bear or other trophy animals for trophy only in most jurisdictions. Yes it happens. But most hunters will not tollerate this behavior by their fellow "hunters".
Yes varmint seasons still exist in some states including my own. They exist for nuisance control more than anything.