Ivory-billed Woodpecker (formerly updates) (1 Viewer)

[Blackstart]

There is a guy in Oklahoma that has conclusive proof that there are Velociraptors on the loose too. Still trying to work out what that could have been - making the assumption that he wasn't just making it up!

A simple formula gives you your answer, Jane.

Adam

 

[Merlin]

Thanks Jesse
I am sure that the 'many' are still viewing and waiting who are both sceptics
and believers. Why a minority frrom both 'views' are reduced to apparent abuse I do not understand or frankly even want to read.
But to our compatriots, keep out there looking, and I wish I was there with you!
regards
Merlin

This board used to be an exchange point for ideas and thoughts. People would throw stuff out, and if it fell apart that was fine.

As for now I am posting nothing new on this thread because I have nothing new. Many of us cannot afford to go out weekly even if we want to, and that is the point to which this has come. Research is what is, and always has been, needed. Even those, that in all fairness are skeptical, that want a photo but are not just here to cause trouble know that this is the case. When there is something worth posting it will hit the searchers forum in all liklihood.

Goatnose is still plugging away, Cinclodes is still working, as is Fang and Chou. Most have gone silent because there is nothing to be gained by saying much right now, and they need results in hand. There are probably dozens of others that are working but that simply are living their own lives and don't know this board exists.

We all know that a dead bird or a photo is what is required. I want a photo. Even feathers would immediately be subject to the claim that they were pulled from a specimen.

I am not going to post conversations or email exchanges I routinely have with folks around the country who are actively searching because I don't have their permission.

But I can tell you that next weekend is another chance to be out looking. We've identified a place that holds much promise in my mind, and with luck I will have a photo. Without luck, I will have another beautiful fall day in the woods. That still constitutes a great life to me! If the bird is found it'll be brought up. I just wish I had a fraction of Cornell's or Auburn's budget.

So while there is much trash here, please remember that there are people that will continue to note what is found, when it is found. And that, for you skepctics, includes even adverse information.

Jesse

 

[Mike Johnston]

Until you can acknowledge the reasonableness of people with whom you disagree, you're not engaging in debate. You're just pontificating.

Indeed. And perhaps Mike Collins/cinclodes would be taken a tad more sympathetically if he did not arrogantly characterise sceptics as stupid, apathetic, jealous and clueless, as he did last week on his website. (Is that acceptable, or do we put it down again to provocation?).

* Stupidity. Back when aviators were trying to break the "sound barrier," many believed that forces would become infinite at the speed of sound and that any aircraft that approached it would be torn apart. They ignored obvious evidence to the contrary. For example, meteors travel through the atmosphere at many times the speed of sound, and some of them make it all the way to the ground in one piece. We are now witnessing stupidity among skeptics who are ignoring evidence that the ivorybill is still with us.

* Apathy. Before breaking the sound barrier, Yeager's flights were ignored as this quote indicates: "There's no interest in our flights because practically nobody at Muroc gives us any chance for success. Those bastards think they have it all figured." The same thing is happening with the ivorybill. There is very little discussion on the birding listserves of states where ivorybills have been found. Birding magazines published stories shortly after the news came from Arkansas. Since then, they have largely been silent other than publishing the views of skeptics.

* Jealousy. Despite being one of the least senior test pilots, Yeager was chosen to make the attempt at the sound barrier in the X-1. The other test pilots were jealous, and many of them hoped he would die in the attempt. It is obvious that many of the ivorybill skeptics are motivated by jealousy. For exampe, they can't stand it that a birder like me, who doesn't play by their rules, has found ivorybills. Eat your hearts out, skeptics. I have found ivorybills in the Pearl, and you have no idea what you are missing or how clueless you are.

 

[colonelboris]

I'm trying to stay out of the somewhat amusing arguments, but has anyone read Moonraker by Ian Fleming? I'm starting to think that Cinclodes has a touch of the same thing as Hugo Drax (no, nothing like the one in the film). An otherwise intelligent person who's ended up on the bad side of some people and now tries to prove his own greatness while taking huge swipes at everyone that he sees as being in his way. Another sign is the comparisons to someone already famous or great in their field.
I've never met the chap, or spoken to him directly, so I could be hopelessly wrong, but is he doing this for his own glory, for the survival of the bird or to prove the sceptics wrong?

 

[Goatnose]

American Pioneer

I'm trying to stay out of the somewhat amusing arguments, but has anyone read Moonraker by Ian Fleming? I'm starting to think that Cinclodes has a touch of the same thing as Hugo Drax (no, nothing like the one in the film). An otherwise intelligent person who's ended up on the bad side of some people and now tries to prove his own greatness while taking huge swipes at everyone that he sees as being in his way. Another sign is the comparisons to someone already famous or great in their field.
I've never met the chap, or spoken to him directly, so I could be hopelessly wrong, but is he doing this for his own glory, for the survival of the bird or to prove the sceptics wrong?

For myself, I don’t care why he is doing it but I do care that he is doing it. Getting up early, out before dawn, checking his equipment, checking it twice. Strap those same old pair of boots that he meant to toss weeks ago for a new pair that doesn’t leak in multiple places. Moving fast before light to get into position through Water Moccasin country remembering why the Moccasin is nickname “cottonmouth” because that hissing white translucent warning could save your day once again. Finally in position, dawn gives way as the woods awake. Straining with all senses to hear the “Kent” the “double Rap” the first calls of the Pileated ring out to their family members. It’s game time, birds are on the move, setup, be aware, be ready to move again. Oh yea remove the lens cover, check the equipment a third time, pay attention to detail yet pay attention global, 360 degrees, wind, sun angle etc.
He does it because he loves it; he does it because he is a pioneer. Set paths, set methods yea pioneer, no one in your generation has accomplished this before.

 

[timeshadowed]

Good post Goat!

Best of luck to all who are searching this season.

 

[olivacea]

pay attention to detail yet pay attention global, 360 degrees, wind, sun angle etc.

Yea! I've got Google Map. It does 360 degrees. Backup is a GPS. Wind & sun angle? I usually try to keep my eyes open, but occasionally nap. Nothing about cloud cover?

This is gibberish...

Later...
olivacea

 

[Mike Johnston]

Set paths, set methods yea pioneer, no one in your generation has accomplished this before.

Oh, I see. I thought he was just a guy looking for a woodpecker. :smoke:

 

[colonelboris]

I wasn't questioning the commitment, only the reason.

 

[MMinNY]

I don't think it's helpful for Mike to write such things, and had he asked me, I would have advised him to reconsider. That said, provocation is a very big part of it; it doesn't justify the statements, but it goes a long way toward explaining them. Mike was systematically attacked (in my view it was an orchestrated character assassination campaign) and ridiculed here and all over the net before he made those statements or others like them. So, in short, I don't think he would be taken a tad more sympathetically if he had responded in a more measured way. Quite a few posters/former posters here and elsewhere were never the least bit sympathetic.

Indeed. And perhaps Mike Collins/cinclodes would be taken a tad more sympathetically if he did not arrogantly characterise sceptics as stupid, apathetic, jealous and clueless, as he did last week on his website. (Is that acceptable, or do we put it down again to provocation?).

* Stupidity. Back when aviators were trying to break the "sound barrier," many believed that forces would become infinite at the speed of sound and that any aircraft that approached it would be torn apart. They ignored obvious evidence to the contrary. For example, meteors travel through the atmosphere at many times the speed of sound, and some of them make it all the way to the ground in one piece. We are now witnessing stupidity among skeptics who are ignoring evidence that the ivorybill is still with us.

* Apathy. Before breaking the sound barrier, Yeager's flights were ignored as this quote indicates: "There's no interest in our flights because practically nobody at Muroc gives us any chance for success. Those bastards think they have it all figured." The same thing is happening with the ivorybill. There is very little discussion on the birding listserves of states where ivorybills have been found. Birding magazines published stories shortly after the news came from Arkansas. Since then, they have largely been silent other than publishing the views of skeptics.

* Jealousy. Despite being one of the least senior test pilots, Yeager was chosen to make the attempt at the sound barrier in the X-1. The other test pilots were jealous, and many of them hoped he would die in the attempt. It is obvious that many of the ivorybill skeptics are motivated by jealousy. For exampe, they can't stand it that a birder like me, who doesn't play by their rules, has found ivorybills. Eat your hearts out, skeptics. I have found ivorybills in the Pearl, and you have no idea what you are missing or how clueless you are.

 

[humminbird]

I don't think it's helpful for Mike to write such things, and had he asked me, I would have advised him to reconsider. That said, provocation is a very big part of it; it doesn't justify the statements, but it goes a long way toward explaining them. Mike was systematically attacked (in my view it was an orchestrated character assassination campaign) and ridiculed here and all over the net before he made those statements or others like them. So, in short, I don't think he would be taken a tad more sympathetically if he had responded in a more measured way. Quite a few posters/former posters here and elsewhere were never the least bit sympathetic.

Could not agree with you more Mike. Personally, given the obviously orchestrated nature of the attacks, I do not think anything Cincloides could have, or would have, said would make the least bit of difference in the response.
That said, postings like those noted do not lead him to favor within the community.

 

[MMinNY]

Why does anyone do anything? Why do people trash each other on internet forums? Why do birders get so competitive?

If time and finances allow, I may spend some time in the field with Mike this year. . .why? Partly because the IBWO captivated me at age 10, and the chance to see one excites me on a personal level; partly because I'd like to contribute (physically) to the effort to learn more about the species and (one hopes) help it survive; partly, I suppose, I have some faint hope of getting that photograph (far less likely than merely seeing one, given my lack of wildlife photography experience). I'm sure there are other factors as well. What lies behind those motives? A plethora of things no doubt. I'm sure the same general pattern applies to Mike, though I've never discussed his motivations.

I wasn't questioning the commitment, only the reason.

 

[IBWO_Agnostic]

....(in my view it was an orchestrated character assassination campaign).....

Vast trailing-wing conspiracy perhaps? ;-)

Orchestrated by whom? As far as I know skeptics have all arrived in the camp by their own path. It started with a second look at the Luneau video. I was stop actioning the video within a week and wondering about certain characters I was seeing. It continued with the unnatural inability to obtain conclusive photos, and then it just built from there. There are many birders that have seen something rare, and not viewed enough field marks to convince others. They either quietly accept their own record, or accept that they may not have seen the bird, or sit and stew and hate other birders that rejected their sigthing. Then of course there ARE some that compare themselves to Chuck Yeager.

 

[Ilya Maclean]

Vast trailing-wing conspiracy perhaps? ;-)

Orchestrated by whom? As far as I know skeptics have all arrived in the camp by their own path. It started with a second look at the Luneau video. I was stop actioning the video within a week and wondering about certain characters I was seeing. It continued with the unnatural inability to obtain conclusive photos, and then it just built from there. There are many birders that have seen something rare, and not viewed enough field marks to convince others. They either quietly accept their own record, or accept that they may not have seen the bird, or sit and stew and hate other birders that rejected their sigthing. Then of course there ARE some that compare themselves to Chuck Yeager.

I have a confession to make. Tim Allwood is in fact working for British Intelligence and for the past 2 years has been the spearhead of secret project codenamed COUNTERCINC. The aim of the project is to undermine the US conservation movement. Following the rediscovery of the Ivory-billed woodpecker, the single greatest achievement in US conservation history, the under-mining of irrefutable sightings has become the project’s most urgent priority. The current modus operandi is to systematically undermine the character of all those providing evidence, starting with the most prominent figureheads. His first recruits, black-mailed into compliance about 18 months ago remain the most prominent: David Sibley and Tom Nelson. However he has expanded his operations to ensure that a more orchestrated attack can be sustained by recruiting more widely and has now ensnared a number of birdforum posters. I am able to make this confession, as with the help of Choupique’s SAS buddies and a notorious US ex fighter pilot, I was able to capture Tim and am currently holding him hostage with a view to restoring faith in all IBW sightings. Many may have noticed his conspicuous absence from this thread and I felt it better to explain before distortions of the truth became public.

 

[timeshadowed]

Originally Posted by MMinNY
....(in my view it was an orchestrated character assassination campaign).....

Orchestrated by whom?

character assassination = personal attacks - it has nothing to do with anything other than tearing apart a person's personal entegrety. And that includes calling that person 'names'.

True IBWO skeptics limit their comments to IBWO topics, not character assassination.

 

[MMinNY]

You just have to go back and read the postings, including by newcomers to this thread, and it's evident to me that people were sharing (purportedly) negative information about Mike privately and coming out of the woodwork to attack him. That's what I call orchestration. I'm not going to name names, but a review of the posts should make it pretty clear who was involved. I said nothing about the Luneau video, or "skepticism" in general in this context.

Now, I'm off in a few minutes to phone bank for my local Democratic Congressional candidate. We might win this one. Another small contribution to environmental protection, in my view. I'm sure there are some who will disagree, though not you.

Vast trailing-wing conspiracy perhaps? ;-)

Orchestrated by whom? As far as I know skeptics have all arrived in the camp by their own path. It started with a second look at the Luneau video. I was stop actioning the video within a week and wondering about certain characters I was seeing. It continued with the unnatural inability to obtain conclusive photos, and then it just built from there. There are many birders that have seen something rare, and not viewed enough field marks to convince others. They either quietly accept their own record, or accept that they may not have seen the bird, or sit and stew and hate other birders that rejected their sigthing. Then of course there ARE some that compare themselves to Chuck Yeager.

 

[Jane Turner]

Thanks Ilya - I ~was~ wondering!

 

[DEREK CHARLES]

Ilya, grow up.

If you have nothing sensible to say on this thread, please go away.

Derek

 

[Tyke]

Ilya, grow up.

If you have nothing sensible to say on this thread, please go away.

Derek

About time someone said that.
:clap:
Colin

 

[IBWO_Agnostic]

Ilya, grow up.

If you have nothing sensible to say on this thread, please go away.

Derek

Since when is 'sensible' a requirement on THIS thread? I for one enjoy the occasional snide comment as long as it's funny.