Japanese 10x50s - JB/JE era and later? (3 Viewers)

[Patudo]

Hey folks,

Curious about Japanese 10x50s from the JB/JE era (and indeed later). We know they did 7x35s and 7x50s well, but none of their 8x30 offerings really seemed to stand out (except maybe the Nikon A-series - but I think, possibly incorrectly, of Nikon as somewhat distinct from the mass of JB/JE manufacturers because of their standalone brand).

Apart from the Swift Audubon/Kestrel and maybe the Nikon 10x50 Gold Sentinel (only partly multi-coated, alas), were there many/any 10x50s that compared well with eg. the 10x50 Jenoptem? Later on Fujinon produced the 10x50 FMT, but that's somewhat more recent than the era I'm thinking about.

I had wondered if this might have been because there weren't good US designs that they could work from (like there were in 7x50 and I think 7x35 as well); but they could easily have taken any of the European 10x50s as a template and worked from there?

Be interesting to have your thoughts.

P.

 

[William Lewis]

Hi Patudo. I have a set of carton 10x50's. Photographed here. Carton 10x50

I concurrently had a set of 10x50 decarem 1q's which were the supposedly superior export model. I had both professionally serviced before comparing them.

There were 2 major differences between these pairs.

The first was the colour correction - the Zeiss has the classic green hue which adds to the impression of brightness, I wasn't overly fond of it but it was there in my set in abundance. The single coated cartons have a more brown/red colour palette.

The second major difference was the eyepiece design - the decarem has a notoriously wide, although not especially well corrected field of view. It also has what I found to be a very unforgiving eye box that could never get comfortable with, they have minimal eye relief - forget glasses. The carton have the classic 50° fov but it's eye box is much more acceptable.

Centre field sharpness seems broadly similar with maybe a slight edge to the cartons. Carton made good telescopes e.g the carton comet seeker reviewed here - Carton Comet Seeker Review

I find the quality of them to be very very good for the era and despite there low cost to me (£36!) treasure them. I take them out under the stars and bird watching from time to time and find them to be a very useable instrument.

So there is one data point for you anyway - what you can't see is that they smell amazing and the quality and condition is very good.

Will

 

[Cavendish]

what you can't see is that they smell amazing

I have always wondered why binoculars of that era often have that highly distinctive smell - instant nostalgia! All the ones I can remember encountering have been Japanese so maybe it's peculiar to them. But I've often wondered whether it's a particular lubricant they used or something else? Either way, I find it incredible just how persistent that smell is.

 

[rdmadison]

I've wondered about that smell too, and without any proof guessed that it was probably sperm oil (i.e. spermaceti). Banned in U.S after 1972.

 

[Patudo]

I guess the lack of replies tells its own story. I wonder if the lack of well-regarded Japanese 10x50s reflects lack of demand or ...??? The funny thing is, I could have sworn 10x50 would be more in demand than 7x50 - maybe there really were a lot of yachties buying the latter back then?

I'll make sure to look through a Carton or similar 5 degree 10x50 if I ever see one. I wonder how much design heritage these share with Leitz's 5 degree 10x50.

 

[pat mitchel]

Ok, I'll throw out a couple names- Bushnell custom 10x50 7deg, not much eye relief, tank like build (the 2 I have must have been used by hunters , both beat to crap and optically/mechanically excellent). Cadillac Supreme 10x50 7 degree, both of these BTW are BaK4 prisms, optically excellent mechanically excellent. The Caddie Supreme is mag frame so reasonably light. Dark horse- Chiyoko (forerunner of Minolta)10x50 (BK7 prisms) Really Nice IMO excellent sharpness, mechanically excellent, constantly surprises me.... I have a Mirador 10x50 7 deg that is sharp center but drops off a bit too fast to a soft edge, but mechanically excellent, optically good. Pat

 

[Patudo]

Thanks, Pat. Unfortunately it'll be difficult to find examples of any of those in the UK, but I'll keep an eye out. How do you think they compare to the Dekarem/Jenoptem of similar era (presume all those were single-coated)? From memory Tobias M. rated the Swift Kestrel somewhat ahead of the multi-coated Jenoptem.

I agree that build quality of many Japanese binoculars from that era seems very good, definitely better than the 8x30 Jenoptem (multi-coated) I used to own and really not far off the West German porros. It's interesting that the Japanese manufacturers offered those wide angle 7x35s and some wide angle 8x40s and 7x50s, but the 10x50s and I think 8x30s as well offered a little less (7 degrees vs 7.3 and from recollection many Japanese 8x30s were 8.2/8.3).

 

[pat mitchel]

The Cadillac supreme compares favorably to the only German bino I have , a Zeiss oberkochen 10x50 (which happens to be slightly dim and lower contrast - even after the prism cleaning, lens element cleaning). They are both short of ER- worse in the Zeiss than the Caddie but have a decent field (7 deg) both excellent mechanically and optically. The one particular thing I have found with the early Kowas (the Caddie is Kowa made) is that the eyecups, after removal, offer an eyelens that is very close to the surface of the eyepiece, such that an eyeglass wearer, has a better chance at seeing the full FOV.

 

[Scott98]

I love the Nikon 80's Action 7x50 and 10x50. I've got the Action version of 7x50 and Gold Sentinel 10x50 which is pretty much the same thing. The two things optically that stand out are the excellent sharpness which matches any of my modern binos (e.g. Zeiss SF). The second thing is the near-perfect color correction - no CA visible.

Also the eye placement is very easy and tolerant of movement. The bodies are light and easy to grip. I would watch ebay and try to find a pair of these in good condition. I've never had a pair of 7x50 A's or E's but I'm sure they're excellent as well - no 10x50 though.

The 80's coatings do have that sepia-tone like an old movie, but it's not something I even notice unless I'm comparing them directly to a modern glass. The bird colors are vivid & clear and the sharpness jumps out at you right away.

 

[Binastro]

Hoya 10x50 Extra Wide Angle.
Field 7.5 degrees (accurate).

Coated optics but not fully coated.

JB 191

Black leatherette.
Silver trim
Mint oval sticker
American one piece body.

Pincushion distortion but whole field visible without glasses.
Very sharp.

Easy to hold steady, not too heavy or too light.
Curved field but not excessive.

Knife edge baffles.

Mint
With very nice case.
Well made with very little bridge movement.
Seems to be unused.

The plastic strap seems greasy, but probably decades of not being touched.
Visually strap is mint.

Regards,
B