Kenya, Pipits & Larks (1 Viewer)

[James Lowther]

Well my point isn’t that you need to buy a new field guide, just that you shouldn’t assume it has a completely up to date species list.

If you are interested in knowing which species from the rufous naped complex you have seen it’s really easy to work out based on where you saw them.

If you’re not interested that’s up to you

James

 

[Jos Stratford]

So what's the point in creating new species, which do not differ from the old ones?

Clearly they do differ. Species are not defined by whether they satisfy your human eye.

 

[JayFeatherPL]

Clearly they do differ. Species are not defined by whether they satisfy your human eye.

identifiable by song only.

The differences are so subtle that it makes no difference if the birds are species or subspecies...In most cases, I guess...
The changes are just unnecessary.

 

[THE_FERN]

I get your point, but how many guides have to get outdated to reach the final, inerrant version?

Umm, err did I say taxonomy is subjective?

...Well it is and it always will be. Even the birds themselves don't have a clear understanding of where the species boundaries are in many cases...

...only with hindsight (+/- geological epochs) do they become clearer and those (then apparent) boundaries may be the result of happenstance like isolation (can't physically breed with other populations) or outside forces (selection) rather than anything especially to do with the intrinsic nature of the birds themselves

There is no single taxonomy because there is no way to get at "the truth" of patterns of relatedness, and even if there were, a taxonomy is the imposition of breaks on something which is more or less continuous and so is arbitrary. There are more than 20 different species concepts out there. The number of species you get will differ for each... Even if you pick one, the number will vary depending on the evidence available and the taxonomist's interpretation of it. This means you can keep revising the field guides forever if you want.

 

[THE_FERN]

The differences are so subtle that it makes no difference if the birds are species or subspecies..

Did you notice that birds often put great store on song? Certainly larks do. If that's not enough their senses differ from (most of) ours. For example, unlike all but a very few humans (women), many birds are tetrachromats. Absolutely no guarantee that something which appears the same to you does to them. Almost certainly it has a different voice.

 

[MacNara]

There's a time lag between these arrangements and field guides (which may in any case impose their own taxonomy). So it's very likely BoEA will include this split in its next edition, or at least mention it. Finally, taxonomy is entirely subjective and there are different opinions.

Indeed, but a lot of this splitting, including the larks, see the link given by Brian Small above, seems to be done on DNA these days, with few or no visible differences which would be apparent to the average birder, or even often an expert.

Well my point isn’t that you need to buy a new field guide, just that you shouldn’t assume it has a completely up to date species list.

If you are interested in knowing which species from the rufous naped complex you have seen it’s really easy to work out based on where you saw them.

To you both: The original edition of Birds of East Africa was 2002. The current edition is from 2020, and already it seems the Larks section is very 'out-of-date' - many or all subspecies of Rufous-naped from that book seem to have become species, and there are new genera and re-sorting between different genera.

So we can expect a new edition of Birds of East Africa in 2038, maybe. In this situation, James, I think your comment, 'my point isn’t that you need to buy a new field guide' is a bit condescending. How are serious but not in any way professional birders expected to keep up? Full guides take a long time to catch up, so what 'new guide' is there? And we can't all be expected to subscribe to large numbers of academic journals. Perhaps Brian Small can suggest to the publisher of Birds of East Africa that they put online re-classifications as they occur; but I'm not sure they will be all that keen.

And all of these printed guides anyway have a lag of - I guess - several years; so even if there was an edition of Birds of East Africa published in 2025, it might well have been 'finalised' too early to have caught these changes anyway.

I'm not sure that I'll make it to 2038 (well, I'm not sure the world will, but fingers crossed...). Perhaps someone could set up a business where lists could be maintained posthumously - I could upload my photos and lists and they would be updated forever following future splits so I don't miss out. Like those places which freeze the bodies of the insane rich in the hopes of future medical developments which would bring them back to life, it could be called Cryogenic Birding.

 

[James Lowther]

Hi MacNara,
Sorry you found my argument condescending but I believe that’s an inaccurate characterisation (and possibly you misinterpreted what I wrote as suggesting
Jay DID need to buy a new guide when I actually said the opposite).

As for serious but not professional birders (like me), if they want to keep up with taxonomic changes affecting East African birds they can follow updates on the IOC website, or they can look at the most up to date checklists on Avibase, or they can read the African bird club magazine which includes regular taxonomic updates. Or they can follow the taxonomy threads on birdforum. Or they can take helpful comments about potential splits affecting birds they have seen in the spirit they were intended.

Or they can be relaxed about the whole thing and wait until the next edition of the guide comes out in 2038 to find out what splits have occurred in the interim. I personally prefer to be forewarned and put in a lot of effort to keep abreast of developments affecting parts of the world I might visit (see for example annotations in the whiteeyes page of my copy of the 1st edition of birds of east Africa). I appreciate that level of effort isn’t for everyone but I am always willing to help other people by sharing what I have found out as you can see in this thread.

Cheers
James

 

[THE_FERN]

All of this is why traditional paper field guides will surely die out. Merlin "packs" can respond instantly to changes in taxonomic arrangement (I see sentinel lark's already there)---so could any other electronic system. Producing good paintings takes time, but you can plan ahead by doing all the "subspecies" to begin with.

We could also make life easier by mandating certain views or aspects for all illustrations of new taxa. As it is, this isn't standardised at all