Komz 6x24 conditional alignment advice requested (1 Viewer)

[PIan]

hello binocular lovers
I recently acquired a nice vintage pair of komz 6x24 binos very cheaply. They are generally in good shape but were badly out of collimation. It appears someone has already tried to fix these as the right prism plate shows previous signs of removal. I have had them all to pieces and cleaned everything up, greased focus and diopter all working well. The glass/optics are pretty much as new so luckily no need to touch any of that.
My problem is in achieving acceptable conditional alignment. I have got them to a usable state but would like a more accurate result if possible. The binoculars use eccentric rings for fine tuning the objectives which is fine and I have done this many times before with other optics, however there is so much thick brown grease/sealant that accessing the rings is likely to lead to mess on the 24mm objectives which are like new. Since it seems that only the right prism cluster is all out of wack, (I can see this using my homemade sun projection rig) I have mostly corrected the error and although very usable I wonder if anyone has any suggestions of how to adjust the set screws to align the prism clusters without having to reassemble the eyepiece bridge/focus tube/parts after each tiny adjustment of the prism set screws and locking screws? To get the alignment to the current usable state where it is correct enough to not show double vision I must have reassembled the binos dozens of times. I'd like to get it a little better and I'm thinking there must be a way of aligning the prisms accurately without the eyepiece attached? Thoughts include paper template/pinhole over the prism plate aperture matching the good left side to the right? maybe using a laser pointer?
Any ideas gratefully received

 

[delia todd]

Hi PIan and a warm welcome to you from all the Staff and Moderators.

Someone will soon be along to give you some ideas and help.

I'm sure you will enjoy it here and I look forward to hearing your news.

 

[ZeNiTh-PbArM]

Hi

On this model you are supposed to perform rough adjustment with the prism shelf and finish the fine-tuning with objective rings.
The russian grease is a mess, but paint thinner cleans it quite well. After this, objective lenses need degreasing with acetone. This would be the easiest way to proceed.
If you don't want to risk it, you could always get a spare cover from a junk pair and drill some holes to access the three groups of push/pull screws through the cover and tweak the settings until you're satisfied, then put the original cover back on. I suppose the factory used such kind of tooling to adjust the prisms during production.

Cheers
zp*

 

[richard866945]

As you are not so very far away, do you fancy bringing your binocular to my workshop and using one of my collimators?
I'm on the outskirts of Hythe, Southampton. I'm around this coming week then off for a break.
You can see me and my portable collimator on The Repair Shop on Tuesday at 4.30 unless they change the scheduling.
PM me if you are interested.
Richard

 

[PIan]

Thanks for your informative replies
I like the idea of making a temporary prism plate substitute that allows access to the adjustments possibly even just removing the prism plate and allowing the right eyepiece to pivot freely for easier access to the screws I hadn't considered that approach so will try it.
I appreciate the very kind offer of the collimator, I'd really like to crack this one myself and get the satisfaction of rescuing a fine instrument and realising my £25 investment. However if I get stuck maybe I'll pop over to your workshop. I will of course be tuning in to the Repair Shop on Tuesday 1630.
I will keep you updated on progress, in the meantime a photo
Thanks again

 

[dries1]

I suppose you will get conditional alignment by any other method than use of a collimator.

 

[richard866945]

I suppose you will get conditional alignment by any other method than use of a collimator.

with patience and practice it is possible to get perfect alignment without a collimator.
I am however pleasantly surprised when I adjust a binocular using a distant object
and find the alignment is absolutely correct when checked on a collimator.
It's only taken about 57 years.

 

[dries1]

Much more efficient with a collimator.

 

[jring]

Hi,

first of all, welcome to birdforum and congratulations to getting a quite collectible pair for very cheap!

As for using anything else beside the sun (or a real collimator large enough to get both objectives into the parallel light beam), I fear that is not going to work due to the fact that the light source will be too close...
Even if you use a laser pointer to get a more or less less parallel beam, it is going to be too close for comfort (or rather small angle approximation)... unless maybe you can put the laser far away (like some 50m or so) w/o danger of somebody looking into it...
And then of course make very sure to not observe a laser through an optical instrument... just projection...

If you use your existing solar setup w/o eyepieces, you should be able to burn two holes into a piece of paper at best focus and if it's only one hole, collimation is correct ;-)

But of course don't do that... could you maybe either have your projection screen quite a bit away from the focal point and then get the fuzzy circles to merge and/or use some visual Baader Solar foil in front the objectives to avoid smoke...

Joachim

 

[PIan]

Updating my 6x24 alignment problem
Thanks for all the suggestions I have now had time to spend on these fine Russian optics.
Being a fan of not over engineering a solution I bodged up a simple way of holding the eyepiece in its correct alignment (in its working position) as if the focus tubes were fitted, which with this instrument isnt possible as the focus tubes are part of the prism plate.

This allowed me access to the prism cluster set screws while still viewing distant objects, its awkward but worked well enough to a get a pretty good rough alignment, then I reverted to my original method, fitting the prism plates, focus tubes and eyepiece assembly on/off half a dozen times for the last few critical adjustments. I'm quite pleased with the results, since these are only used by me at IP distance 65mm conditional alignment is satisfactory. A distant object at approximately 3 miles shows a very slight error in the horizontal, the vertical (viewing the sea horizon) is bang on. I decided to quit while I was ahead. I will check using star method tonight if clear.
These binoculars give amazingly clear wide views for something so small and my £25 (and several hours toil) was well worth it.

Thank you for your ideas

 

[richard866945]

Maybe you don't realise that the front lenses are in eccentric rings.
Having got the prisms roughly in place, you can unscrew the covers around the lenses; release the lock ring
and rotate the eccentric ring and or the mount that contains the object glass.
It's not quite that straight forward as the front assembly is normally "sealed" with a messy black substance.

 

[PIan]

Maybe you don't realise that the front lenses are in eccentric rings.
Having got the prisms roughly in place, you can unscrew the covers around the lenses; release the lock ring
and rotate the eccentric ring and or the mount that contains the object glass.
It's not quite that straight forward as the front assembly is normally "sealed" with a messy black substance.

Yes I'm aware of the eccentric rings which I have adjusted many times on other binoculars, but with so much gungy grease at that end I decided to fiddle with just the one side through the prism plate, didn't want risk ruining the objective coatings which are like new.

 

[WJC]

with patience and practice it is possible to get perfect alignment without a collimator.
I am however pleasantly surprised when I adjust a binocular using a distant object
and find the alignment is absolutely correct when checked on a collimator.
It's only taken about 57 years.

PERFECT collimation is a misnomer! Much more than adequate, perhaps, but "perfect"? Temperature and humidity will see to that.